ECITA say that wall chargers that are rated higher than 500mA should not be used?

[Andaho]

See their latest blog post: http://www.ecita.org.uk/blog/index.php/important-things-to-know-about-battery-safety/


I have left this reply (although it's currently awaiting moderation):

I’m concerned for safety reasons as to why you state “Always use a standard (500mA) USB power supply”?


I use an expensive multi-port powered USB hub for charging all my USB devices, which is rated for 2100mA per port.


I’m a heavy chain vaper that goes through about 2 * 1100mAh batteries a day. I’ve been vaping for over 3 years, and have always used this powered USB hub for charging my e-cig batteries – along with all my other USB devices.


When I read the details of this story of the battery exploding in the pub, I’m starting to get very worried about this claimed need to “Always use a standard (500mA) USB power supply”.


Members of the ECITA also sell USB adapters that rated much higher than 500mA – for example (but there are many others): http://www.liberty-flights.co.uk/product.asp?id=89


Are there any technical reasons as to why using a USB charger rated over 500mA is unsuitable? – And if it is, why are ECITA members selling “universal” chargers that deliver over 500mA?


In the case of this pub-exploding-battery story, lets assume that the charger being used was a genuine Apple 2.1A USB charger. How could that be the cause of a battery exploding?


Should vendors (members of ECITA) be allowed to sell chargers rated over 500mA?


USB is universally used as a charging port, and a large number (perhaps a majority) of USB chargers provide a lot more than 500mA – If electronic cigarettes are not safe to be used on chargers that supply more than 500mA, then should e-cigarettes be using the USB standard?


I was extremely disappointed to read the response from Totally Wicked/Joyetech:


A spokesman for the manufacturer of the battery said: “We provide clear information on websites and in electronic cigarette starter kits that explain how our batteries should be charged and cared for. We cannot comment on the circumstance of this particular instance or make any comment on the provenance of this battery. However, it does not appear that a dedicated electronic cigarette charger was used.”


I realise that Totally Wicked are not a member of ECITA, but I believe it’s unacceptable that they are so blunt to disassociate themselves from the incident in a manner of ignorance and incompetence. They should be taking the incident seriously and investigating the cause. – As a heavy user of e-cigarettes, I want to know how and why a reputable brand battery would explode like this.


For fear that this reply of mine is so long, that you might forget my main question: Why is it not safe to use a powered USB hub to charge my e-cig batteries?


Many thanks,


Andy.

Can anyone here give a genuine technical reason as to why using a 2.1A usb port on a high quality usb hub is not safe?


By the way, for more background on to where this blog post by ECITA has come from, read this news article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rred-dress-e-cigarette-explodes-fireball.html

 

[Raguri]

Basically, batteries have a max charge amperage. 2.1amps exceeds this amperage. Battery goes boom.

 

[Soldier Blue]

Personally I think battery chargers of ANY kind shouldn't be purchased by ANYONE unless there is something like a leaflet hand given to the purchaser to explain the pros and cons.

The majority of shite we read in the Daily Fail refers to poor (innocent) useage IMHO and not faulty devices.

 

[Andaho]

Basically, batteries have a max charge amperage. 2.1amps exceeds this amperage. Battery goes boom.

Yes, but the USB to 510 charging cable has a specified output at 420mA - so it only draws 420mA from a wall charger that is capable of upto 2100mA - it doesn't force 2100mA to the battery - electrical devices only draw what they need.... e.g. screwing a 3W LED light bulb into a 20A mains circuit doesn't mean it's going to force the lightbulb to blow by throwing 20A current into it?

But I'm no expert in electrics, and I'm asking the questions to learn...

 

[Raguri]

Yes, but the USB to 510 charging cable has a specified output at 420mA - so it only draws 420mA from a wall charger that is capable of upto 2100mA - it doesn't force 2100mA to the battery - electrical devices only draw what they need.... e.g. screwing a 3W LED light bulb into a 20A mains circuit doesn't mean it's going to force the lightbulb to blow by throwing 20A current into it?

But I'm no expert in electrics, and I'm asking the questions to learn...

Okay, I'll get a bit more technical. Look on your charger. You should have a max input. And a max output. The circuitry inside the charger is only able to cope with the amperage shown as the max input. Any more than that, the circuitry inside shall fail, causing a charger malfunction. Now. In good high quality chargers. This should cause it to stop functioning. In bad quality chargers however it will not, and the reduction circuit will be bypassed

 

[steffijade]

Yes, but the USB to 510 charging cable has a specified output at 420mA - so it only draws 420mA from a wall charger that is capable of upto 2100mA - it doesn't force 2100mA to the battery - electrical devices only draw what they need.... e.g. screwing a 3W LED light bulb into a 20A mains circuit doesn't mean it's going to force the lightbulb to blow by throwing 20A current into it?

But I'm no expert in electrics, and I'm asking the questions to learn...

Hi & welcome to POTV.

Most new users take a moment to introduce themselves and say hi.

I notice you did neither, choosing instead to launch straight into 'business'.

Would it be rude to enquire if you have an agenda and the purpose of your enquiry?

 

[nemesi]

yeah i was told the same when i was starting to vape that using wall plugs overloads the battery it can cause it to become unstable we've all seen these horror stories my mate actually charged his through a wall plug and it basically melted

 

[Andaho]

Hi & welcome to POTV.

Most new users take a moment to introduce themselves and say hi.

I notice you did neither, choosing instead to launch straight into 'business'.

Would it be rude to enquire if you have an agenda and the purpose of your enquiry?

Hi Steffi

Yes sorry... I just newly created an account to ask this question here (having been a long-time reader, just never wanting to post anything yet), having asked it other places but not got a definite answer...

But yes, quite right!!!...

Hi! My name is Andy and I'm in Torquay, Devon... I've been a vaper for 3-4 years... I started on a cig-alike that I bought from ebuyer.... actually, it's been a lot longer than I thought... I just looked up my purchase history on ebuyer and I see it was actually early 2009! - so scrap that, I've infact been a vaper for 5 years!

At first I tried to 'quit smoking' with e-cigs... I instantly stopped smoking and switched over to ecigs... then I tried to slowly cut down, to eventually the point of not using the ecig anymore.... then a couple months later (you all know how it happens...) I started smoking again!...

So I had to be honest with myself: "why did I always go back to smoking?" - and the honest answer was because I enjoy it! - so I switched straight back to ecigs, because I found they gave me the same pleasure, but being a lot healthier!... Since then, I've always kept up to date buying the newest latest and greatest models... but never going down the route of what some call "fashon vaping"... I do have a smok SID, but that's as adventurous as I get with "mods"... I have so many old vv ego batteries that aren't dead yet, I still use them most of the time.

In my hand right now I have a vision spinner with a kanger unitank-mini - I mix my own 10mg liquid and barely use any flavour - I have a self-made concentrate of menthol (made from menthol crystals), but in a 10m bottle I only use 2-3 drops of menthol.

And you're right on both accounts! I do have an agenda!...

I'm (very slowly) setting up in business sell e-cigarettes - I've wanted to run my own business for many years, and wanted to open an ecig shop for a couple years, but it's taken me a long time setting it up (because I'm a perfectionist and have mild aspergers). I quit my job working as an IT techie just over a year ago, and have been working on setting up my business since then... but still not quite there yet.

I'm confident I have all the supplier contacts I need, but USB UK mains chargers were of concern and took a lot of research - I eventually decided I would sell high-quality 2.1A chargers - and make hardly any profit on them, by pricing them competitively to the cheap chargers that other vendors sell...

I haven't even got to the stage of buying any stock yet, but seeing ECITA saying that 'chargers above 500mA are bad' got me worked up enough to want an explanation

 

[Andaho]

Okay, I'll get a bit more technical. Look on your charger. You should have a max input. And a max output. The circuitry inside the charger is only able to cope with the amperage shown as the max input. Any more than that, the circuitry inside shall fail, causing a charger malfunction. Now. In good high quality chargers. This should cause it to stop functioning. In bad quality chargers however it will not, and the reduction circuit will be bypassed

I have half a dozen ego chargers, a few joyetech 420mA, a kanger 420mA, a kanger 500mA, and a few unbranded that are all 420mA... they all say the same: Input: 5v DC - and that's it - they don't specify a maximum amp input - because the way amps work from what I understand, devices only draw what they require. - it wouldn't matter if it was a 5v 50A supply (like plugging directly into the 5V rail on a PC ATX power supply).

Am I missing something in basic understanding of electronics? - that's a genuine question btw, not being sarcastic in any way (which is how it might sound, but it's not)

 

[vaporsizer]

Regulated psu's are specific in their output amperes & will put out their specified amps. An unregulated psu will drop the amps to the amount of draw that the device demands. Personally i would not use any other charger than a specified safe charger for ego type batteries unless i was an electrically knowledgeable or qualified technician. That is the reason why guidelines & recommendations are set because they assume that we consumers don't know and so best to be safe.
It's no fault of TW on this occasion either. Rather another case of an individual who didn't use the recommended device. Perhaps the guy thought he knew better, perhaps it was an innocent mistake but the fault lies with him.