FDA adds warning about rare heart inflammation to Pfizer, Moderna COVID vaccines

[andipandi]

Yeah, saw that last night. Pretty much the expected response, me thinks.

Yeah, sue the government / big pharma, how much would that cost, with legal aid all but abolished, or rot on rancid benefits designed to punish people, so much for caring conservatism

 

[Mitz]

Yeah, sue the government / big pharma, how much would that cost, with legal aid all but abolished, or rot on rancid benefits designed to punish people, so much for caring conservatism

Not just cost, but time. Going through the courts can take years, if not decades with appeals.

 

[Simon G]

I guess there is always gonna be a small risk with every vaccine. There's never gonna be a one size fits all.

Absolutely. ALL vaccines carry risks. People just need to be aware of what they are in case they experience them and don't just brush it off as something unrelated.

Can never be over-informed, imho.

The problem for me isn't the risk, the problem now is that people are now being shamed, coerced.... and in some cases, you might argue, practically 'forced' into taking that risk.

My uncle is in hospital right now, he went in for a fairly 'routine' operation and suffered a massive stroke while he was under general anesthetic and is now completely paralyzed on one side of his body. I don't 'blame' the doctors, the NHS or anyone for that. Shit happens... but he wasn't forced to have the operation, he wasn't coerced by the government into taking the risk that we all know goes along with being put under for an op and he wasn't threatened with loss of liberty if he chose not to.

That's why it's going to be a problem down the line, if people feel that they didn't have a choice.. because of work, covid passports or whatever and something goes wrong. I find it all quite disturbing to be honest.

Both my kids were more than happy to be vaccinated, but I did tell them it was completely their choice and I wasn't ever going to tell them that they had to.

 

[Mitz]

The problem for me isn't the risk, the problem now is that people are now being shamed, coerced.... and in some cases, you might argue, practically 'forced' into taking that risk.

My uncle is in hospital right now, he went in for a fairly 'routine' operation and suffered a massive stroke while he was under general anesthetic and is now completely paralyzed on one side of his body. I don't 'blame' the doctors, the NHS or anyone for that. Shit happens... but he wasn't forced to have the operation, he wasn't coerced by the government into taking the risk that we all know goes along with being put under for an op and he wasn't threatened with loss of liberty if he chose not to.

That's why it's going to be a problem down the line, if people feel that they didn't have a choice.. because of work, covid passports or whatever and something goes wrong. I find it all quite disturbing to be honest.

Both my kids were more than happy to be vaccinated, but I did tell them it was completely their choice and I wasn't ever going to tell them that they had to.

Not sure mate. I think we might currently disagree somewhat on this one. I agree that nobody should be forced to be vaccinated. If anyone doesn't want to get vaccinated then that's their choice. But I also think businesses can choose who they employ, serve, transport and let in to their premises.

It's a tough one tho and there's no easy answer. I'm still open to persuasion either way.

 

[Simon G]

Not sure mate. I think we might disagree somewhat on this one. I agree that nobody should be forced to be vaccinated. If anyone doesn't want to get vaccinated then that's their choice. But I also think businesses can choose who they employ, serve, transport and let in to their premises.

It's a tough one tho and there's no easy answer.

It is a tough one.

I just think it could get very problematic.... say if your employer says "You must have the vaccine or you can't work here any more" so you go and have it and then you have a bad reaction and end up seriously ill.. lets be dramatic and say you are permanently disabled in some way. Then what? Employer just shrugs it off?

What about people that for whatever reason are in a very high risk group and are advised not to take vaccines? tough luck, you can't work and you can't go to the pub any more either?

... it crosses a line for me anyway.... by quite a big way actually. It's different to needing jabs to visit other countries or needing them to do certain specific things. But working, traveling around your own country, being able to shop or whatever are basic freedoms we should all have without question and almost without exception probably imo.

 

[andipandi]

But I also think businesses can choose who they employ, serve, transport and let in to their premises.

Where does it all end then, those who cant have the vaccine for various medical reasons would be exempt from such coercion would they? They would though, no doubt have to supply a detailed personal medical history outlining things of a very private nature, to buy a sausage roll, to buy a cup of tea, to get a job, to travel on a bus or train, take a taxi ride. Fuck that

Even if the government bought in an ID certificate for those who cant have the jab, what would be on their qualifying list of ailments, next to sod all, i expect.
...................

Britons will need to be fully vaccinated against Covid-19 “for evermore” in order to travel between countries, the transport secretary has predicted, suggesting that quarantine restrictions for some arrivals in England will remain in place into the autumn.

Grant Shapps said it was vital to “protect the domestic unlocking” after the latest changes were announced to the traffic light system that grades destinations according to their case, vaccine and variant numbers.Shapps predicted people would be required to prove they had been fully vaccinated for some time to come, telling BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “It is a reality that in this new world, we’re living with coronavirus … I think double vaccination or full vaccination is going to be a feature for evermore, and probably all countries will require full vaccination for you to enter.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...equired-open-travel-for-evermore-grant-shapps

 

[Mitz]

It is a tough one.

I just think it could get very problematic.... say if your employer says "You must have the vaccine or you can't work here any more" so you go and have it and then you have a bad reaction and end up seriously ill.. lets be dramatic and say you are permanently disabled in some way. Then what? Employer just shrugs it off?

What about people that for whatever reason are in a very high risk group and are advised not to take vaccines? tough luck, you can't work and you can't go to the pub any more either?

... it crosses a line for me anyway.... by quite a big way actually. It's different to needing jabs to visit other countries or needing them to do certain specific things. But working, traveling around your own country, being able to shop or whatever are basic freedoms we should all have without question and almost without exception probably imo.

Where does it all end then, those who cant have the vaccine for various medical reasons would be exempt from such coercion would they? They would though, no doubt have to supply a detailed personal medical history outlining things of a very private nature, to buy a sausage roll, to buy a cup of tea, to get a job, to travel on a bus or train, take a taxi ride. Fuck that View attachment 252257

Even if the government bought in an ID certificate for those who cant have the jab, what would be on their qualifying list of ailments, next to sod all, i expect.
...................

Britons will need to be fully vaccinated against Covid-19 “for evermore” in order to travel between countries, the transport secretary has predicted, suggesting that quarantine restrictions for some arrivals in England will remain in place into the autumn.

Grant Shapps said it was vital to “protect the domestic unlocking” after the latest changes were announced to the traffic light system that grades destinations according to their case, vaccine and variant numbers.Shapps predicted people would be required to prove they had been fully vaccinated for some time to come, telling BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “It is a reality that in this new world, we’re living with coronavirus … I think double vaccination or full vaccination is going to be a feature for evermore, and probably all countries will require full vaccination for you to enter.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...equired-open-travel-for-evermore-grant-shapps

Medical exemptions, basic rights, discrimination law, all complicate the issue. But we're also dealing with a virus and emerging variants that are far more damaging and dangerous than any vaccine.

Yep, exactly why I said it's a tough one with no easy answers. I certainly don't have the answers, but I also don't get paid very handsomely with an equally handsome expense account, or have world class in-house legal and ethics teams at my disposal to come up with them.

 

[andipandi]

Medical exceptions, basic rights, discrimination law, all complicate the issue. But we're also dealing with a virus and emerging variants that are far more damaging and dangerous than any vaccine.

Yep, exactly why I said it's a tough one with no easy answers. I certainly don't have the answers, but I also don't get paid very handsomely with an equally handsome expense account, or have world class in-house legal and ethics teams at my disposal to come up with them.

Maybe not the right words, but I see it all as a authoritarian power grab, digital first, cashless society, ID cards, vax passports, blah blah. I wonder what other shite they're dreaming up, at national governmental and local council levels.

 

["Misfit"]

I thought vaccine manufacturers had a clause that made them exempt from prosecution ?
I haven't read the whole thread in case it has been previously mentioned.

 

[Mitz]

I thought vaccine manufacturers had a clause that made them exempt from prosecution ?
I haven't read the whole thread in case it has been previously mentioned.

No, it makes them exempt from financial liability whilst emergency use authorisation is in force. Doesn't stop you suing them. Just means that most, if not all, of any damages will ultimately be passed on to, and be paid by, the government. As I understand it. Happy to be corrected by more knowledgeable members.