The Diacetyl Dilemma

[Homi576]

Hay everyone

With all the ho ha and na na na and oi you slags! about 5 pawns rediculiously high Diacetyl and AP levels I wanted to make a post where people can put their view of Diacetyl and AP across and their health concerns.

This isnt about 5 pawns its about the juice market as a collective and the use of these chemicals. Lately this has become a concern of mine so I decided to do some digging into it mainly Diacetyl.

The questioning of health implementations of Diacetyl inhalation was brought up mainly with a artical which showed a study of workers in the flavouring industry being exposed to levels of Diacetyl and then suffered from damage to the lung mainly being respiratory bronchiolitis interstitial lung disease.

The study concluded that the inhalation of Diacetyl in a work enviroment was the direct cause of workers that suffered with respiratory bronchiolitis interstitial lung disease and the disease was brought on within a reletively quick time period.

I have found a very intresting medical artical (link at the bottom) about Diacetyl and the risk workers who uses Diacetyl face from inhalation which I found from the same source as the above article mentioned above.

As most will know and some maybe not, cigarettes also contain Diacetyl, these levels a recorded at 250-361ppm and that is per cigarette. SO peeps we have been taking in this Diacetyl for years with our fags at quite a high level as well.

Now to quote part of this intresting article, there might be a risk with Diacetyl but at the same time no bigger than the risk we were taking when smoking a fag.

""We found that diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione exposures from cigarette smoking far exceed occupational exposures for most food/flavoring workers who smoke. This suggests that previous claims of a significant exposure-response relationship between diacetyl inhalation and respiratory disease in food/flavoring workers were confounded, because none of the investigations considered or quantified the non-occupational diacetyl exposure from cigarette smoke, yet all of the cohorts evaluated had considerable smoking histories. Further, because smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor for bronchiolitis obliterans, our findings are inconsistent with claims that diacetyl and/or 2,3-pentanedione exposure are risk factors for this disease.""

Anyways make of it as you will, please share your thoughts, concerns and ideas of how the juice market can adapt to deliver a product that consumers can trust. Thanks for reading.


Safe exposure level for diacetyl

Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione exposures associated with cigarette smoking: implications for risk assessment of food and flavoring workers. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[ned]

ideas of how the juice market can adapt to deliver a product that consumers can trust. Thanks for reading.

being honest might be a start

 

[Homi576]

Well today I had a very honest e-mail from a well known vendor about the juices they make a +1 for the honest coloumn

""Unfortunately all juices with cream, biscuit, yogurt, ice cream, vanilla, custard and pretty much all desert based juices, even strawberries and cream, cheesecakes, pies etc will have acetoin and acetyl propionyl in them, and i mean every juice with those backgrounds notes, anyone that claims that theirs doesn't is either ignorant or doesn't have a clue, but the question is at what levels. Do they fall into the low risk range that are acceptable to vape? We do not have a definitive answer to this at present. I am in the process of having our range tested for the levels our juices contain, as to give our customers the most accurate answer we can, and for our own peace of mind. I am hoping to send out samples over the next few weeks and will add all results to the website once we receive them.
If you are in any doubt, then *** custard is a safer alternative, we will also be working on a D/AP free range in the next few weeks/months.
I hope this helps""

 

[cheersm8]

Makes you think though, doesn't it?
Maybe, if the anti smoking lobbies had, in the early days, put all of their efforts into scaring folks with "Danger! Danger! Diacetyl/formaldehyde ets etc" rather than the shock horror of cancer scares and images of poor old guys hooked up to ventilators, their goals would have been more easily achieved?
It does seem that folks are more likely to be put off by the slight chance, if any chance at all, of popcorn lung than the higher risk of Lung Cancer.

 

[ned]

Well today I had a very honest e-mail from a well known vendor about the juices they make a +1 for the honest coloumn

""Unfortunately all juices with cream, biscuit, yogurt, ice cream, vanilla, custard and pretty much all desert based juices, even strawberries and cream, cheesecakes, pies etc will have acetoin and acetyl propionyl in them, and i mean every juice with those backgrounds notes, anyone that claims that theirs doesn't is either ignorant or doesn't have a clue, but the question is at what levels. Do they fall into the low risk range that are acceptable to vape? We do not have a definitive answer to this at present. I am in the process of having our range tested for the levels our juices contain, as to give our customers the most accurate answer we can, and for our own peace of mind. I am hoping to send out samples over the next few weeks and will add all results to the website once we receive them.
If you are in any doubt, then *** custard is a safer alternative, we will also be working on a D/AP free range in the next few weeks/months.
I hope this helps""

thats all we can i ask imo. we are told what it contains then we make an informed decision as to if we choose to vape it or not. thats how i see it anyway.

 

[ZT]

Speaking from a perspective of someone who is an e-liquid producer....

more effort needs to go into educating the flavour houses that produce the flavours we use to make eliquid.

A lot of those houses tend to hide behind "ahh well you see our flavours are for food" while at the same time clearly marketing the flavours for ecigarette use.

as much as everyone likes to blame the eliquid manufacturer - and responsibility does rightly belong there at least in a large part - but the chain of responsibility also needs to go further back to the flavour houses that manufacture the flavours. as a first port of call imo.

No e-liquid producer is actually adding these chemicals in there raw form to eliquid ( i bloody well hope anyway!) - it is sometimes in the flavourings they buy to use. so that is where the buck starts. especially for flavour houses that actually market their flavours for e-cigarette use.

 

[paul-7]

the totally wicked test results were interesting Totally Wicked e-liquid Test Results Summary

 

[ned]

the totally wicked test results were interesting Totally Wicked e-liquid Test Results Summary

hardly any of the flavours/tastes that we would expect to show positives in their range though eh?

 

[steffijade]

I maintain an attitude of taking personal responsibility.

The vast majority of us are former smokers (or are dual fuellers) and we all know that combusted tobacco can cause some nasty health issues.

The vast majority of us are also independent of smoking cessation services. We got into vaping by ourselves and don't receive 'official' support/guidance in what we do.

Given the lack of official guidance, it falls on all of us to research the equipment/liquid that we use and make a personal risk assessment of it.

If after making a risk assessment, you feel that a particular product doesn't offer enough benefit/reward for the perceived risk, then just don't buy/use it. If you do feel the risk is worth it due to the reward, then use the product and take responsibility for your own decision.

After all, it's your life, your health and your decision. Nobody forces anyone to buy/use equipment/juice.

 

[vaporsizer]

The whole subject, whilst relevant, doesn't worry me too much but i still support the school of pushing for a cleaner & less harmful vape. Even if the risks are minor, if there is something that we can do to minimize it further & still have a successful product then that is surely a refinement worth persuing.
In the mean time i only really vape ry4 (diy) & i little of one other liquid in small amounts.
It might sound barmy but i'm not chasing either flavour nor clouds. Flavour is in my liquid by default so i'll get that anyway with a respectable atty but i'd prefer it to be subtle & consistent, big overdoses are what kills the tongue.
I think the whole industry regarding flavour is just chasing its own tail & whilst that might sound dismissive or boring in this world of high wattage & massive clouds i stand by my view, i believe a wrong turn has been taken. I won't be the first vaper to say that my vape journey has gone full circle in some respects & landed right back in a similar place to where it started, just with better gear that's all.







...& now i hide