Why isn't my kayfun wicking quick enough?

[Rivervape804]

Dagger, a pic would help out immensely. Its hard to tell whats going on from just a description. my Kayfun was stubborn when I first got it. Hopefully we can get this sorted quickly.

 

[Dagger]

Hi guys.
I have dialed back the air control a little and haven't had any bad hits all day. Granted I haven't vaped much since I've been working but now I'm home and will be vaping all evening we'll soon find out if this is a red herring.

I agree the easy solution is switching too voodoo, and that is what I did last time I couldn't get a wick right, I've changed back too cotton though because I think silica mutes the flavour too much.
As soon as I drain this tank I'll open her up and post a pic of the wick n coil. Thanks for the help guys

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[Tubbyengineer]

Vacuum? OK right, there's a vacuum? So, why doesn't my Kayfun collapse like a squashed pop bottle as I use it?

I Run my Kayfun with a Clear full length tank which makes the process easier to visualise but to explain the workings of the Kayfun is quite easy.

You have the base containing what looks like a complicated maze of bits but is essentially a shaped tubule with an airflow restriction screw bisecting the lower portion - in essence acting as a regulator valve. This leads up to the air hole above which sits your coil. The coil, airflow hole etc are covered by the chimney assembly which attaches to the base via the threads on the deck. The threaded portion of the deck has two grooves positioned opposite to each other - these grooves are the route that juice takes to get into the chimney section from the tank section.

When fully assembled and filled a Kayfun holds juice in the tank by a SMALL vacuum, the seal in the top cap prevents air leaking into the tank so the only way for air to enter the tank is remove some of the juice, but juice cannot leave the tank via the juice channels as the pressure of the air outside (ie: inside the chimney whilst you are not drawing on it) keeps pushing the juice back into the tank (You can recreate this effect quite simply by filling an old pop bottle with water then tipping it upside down in a bowl of water, regardless of how much water is in the bottle as long as you keep the neck of the bottle below the surface, then the external air pressure (Or the opposite way of looking at it is the lack of air pressure (Called a vacuum) inside the bottle) will prevent water rushing from the bottle.).

When you draw on the mouthpiece of your Kayfun you cause air to rush through the tubule, over the coil and out of the mouthpiece, this causes a drop in pressure inside the chimney of your Kayfun, once the pressure differential between chimney section and tank section becomes great enough juice flows from the tank, through the juice channels, and into the chimney section where it soaks into the wick (this is why it is important that wick must touch the bottom of the deck inside the chimney but not block the juice channels).

Once you stop drawing on the mouthpiece the pressure in the chimney section returns to normal and the juice stops flowing from the tank - however due to the fact that some juice is now caught in the wick the pressure in the tank is lower than the pressure in the chimney so any "loose" juice is sucked back into the tank along with enough air to return the tank to equilibrium. This process can be seen as a small bubble appearing at the location of the juice channels then floating to the top of the tank and as your wick gets older and dirtier, a slightly darker swirl of juice in the bottom of the tank.

Hopefully this will explain both how an "Underpressure" feed system works and why your Kayfun doesn't collapse! and why you should never be faecetious with someone who actually knows what they are talking about...

 

[Tubbyengineer]

I'm top filling slowly too a couple of mm short of the top chimney whilst finger is over air hole, starting the top, inverting, removing finger and tightening

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cheersm8 is right it's far better to fill from the port, you can get the correct bottles and filling nozzles from cloud 9 vaping, they don't cost much and if you don't abuse them they last ages...

 

[Tubbyengineer]

@Dagger
Thanks for explaining "no contact coil"
You shouldn't need to change coils for wicking issues. I run micro coils at 0.6 ohms with no problem.
Perhaps pictures could help diagnosis. PM them to me, if putting them out there is a problem.
Is it worth doing a silica build to see if the problem remains?
@Tubbyengineer Pressure shouldn't be that much of an issue. I have a Lite drilled out @2.5mm and a 3.1es drilled @3mm, both with AF screws removed. No problems.

Sounds like wicking, or maybe an intermittent short, but I would expect other symptoms if that were the case. (Hot button on a mech, fault/non-fire on a regulated)

Lol, you must have lungs like an industrial vacuum cleaner...

 

[cheersm8]

OK. Tubbyengineer so? even though there is a free passage of air from the atmosphere into the kayfun via the air channel, and even though there is not a one way valve, in any shape or form, situated within that air intake channel, there is still a vacuum? We will have to agree to disagree on the subject of vacuum and maybe I am being 'picky' but I was given to understand that for a vessel to be in a state of vacuum, the vessel had to be sealed. I do, however, agree that a momentary state of vacuum within the tank is created as you suck (that's what makes it all happen) but the tank is not in a permanent state of vacuum when 'at rest'.
Oh well, you live and learn. I always thought that a filled kayfun contained two things, air and e-liquid, and that the pressure inside was equal, and shared, by both, at the same air pressure as the surrounding atmosphere outside of the tank, and, when the pressure decreases, due to depletion of the juice, via evaporation, air enters via the air channel, until the tank pressure, is, once again, equal to the external atmospheric pressure. Otherwise, it would be a stalemate, and nothing would happen at all when you sucked, your cheeks would be hollow and you would never see an air bubble rise up from the juice channels (which, as you know, have the dual purpose of both the means for juice to enter the chamber and feed the wick and also to allow the passage of air back into the tank)
Still what do I know? Not much by the sound of it, but I do know that only one thing allows all this to happen, without flooding or leaking and that's the little o-ring between top cap and chimney
I also know that if my understandings are shown to be crap, I'm happy to accept them as crap, and take the correct knowledge on board.

Who would have thought that a simple thing like a Kayfun would ever be a debatable item?

ps, I don't know what kind of Kayfuns you are used to, but none of mine look like a complicated maze of bits, mine only have five parts, the deck (including it's bits), the tank, the evaporation chamber, the chimney, and the top cap. (now, I admit THAT is being facetious, so I accept the guilt and shame for that one)

**edit Bah! Got it now! The tank is, in fact 'sealed' much like the principles involved in those old fashioned galvanised poultry drinkers, doh! The e-liquid and the stop cap o-ring forming the 'seal' to the air space when the device is 'right side up'. I'll leave my post though, just for folks to chew on.

 

[Motorheaded]

Lol, you must have lungs like an industrial vacuum cleaner...

The opposite is needed Steve. I don't feel like I'm sucking a golf ball up a hose pipe anymore.
Much more vapour and more satisfying. (Close to the edge on the Lite though. Squeaky-bum time, drilling that out.)

WRT the principle behind the Kayfun, you are right. There is a vacuum, but a very small one, created by the pressure of the liquid pulling down, to equalise level, but no air is able to replace it in the head of the tank, due to it being sealed by the little o-ring and the liquid itself. The little bubbles rising after a draw, is the only route air can take to get into the tank, and the liquid combats this. That is why you get leaks from the intake if the tank is not sealed.

But then you already knew that.

 

[Dagger]

Ok guys update.

After vaping all night and draining the tank of confectioners cut, no dodgy tasting hits, not one.

Maybe dialing back the air control as Tubbyengineer said did the trick

Anyway, it vaped well with good flavour and vapour so am happy again, but as promised before refilling here is a pic of the current setup, any tips or hints are still welcome



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[Dagger]

Hard too get a decent pic when the wick is so dark and im using a phone cam but there it is from both sides

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[Danny K]

Wowsers is that the result of one tank ? Looks pretty grimey in there.

Still if it works and works well that's all that matters.



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