Battery advice for Smok TFV12

[Arctic_Wolf]

Thanks to @nwhornet, @Leni, @traksta1 , @Arctic_Wolf for all your help and advice.

I've put my big baby beast tank back on my g-priv at 70W and will avoid using the TFV12 until I get some different batteries.

I'm going to order the Sony VTC5A's as these seem to be getting some love from you guys.

At least this exercise has tested the safety features of the g-priv as it simply will not fire when the warning is displayed.

I hope my device hasn't been damaged in the process though? No damage to the batteries that I can see either.

Thanks again to you all for your advice. I really do appreciate it alot.......

 

[LeamingtonSpaceman]

Even at 70 watts you're still potentially pushing those cells pretty hard!! They're simply not designed to be used for vaping, they're essentially torch batteries!!. They can be used for vaping for a longer battery life, but even then 15 watts or so in a single/dual cell mod for MTL use is really the only safe option. Vape higher, you're potentially into pulse territory every time you press fire!! You'd have to ask Ben for the specifics of what those particular cells can handle, but I'm fairly sure he'd tell you not to use them for anything other than very low wattage MTL vaping or torches and I certainly wouldn't use them in anything other than my old gen 3 15 watt max mods personally!!

Fogstar have incredibly fast delivery . Order now or early tomorrow, you'll hopefully have your VTC5'As on Tues morning . If you can dial the wattage down even more until then, you'd be safer!! Or, use another tank with high resistance coils if you still have one available??. You've actually been pretty lucky getting away with what you have. Was the mod or were the cells getting notably warm??

Your charger BTW is a decent make and model . No issues there . Just dial down the wattage as much as you can bare until you get the safer cells that can handle the type of current you're putting through them safely . Am sure you probably already know to keep them as married pairs and obviously 2 or even 3 pairs would be a good idea at the wattage you're intending to be vaping as battery life will be reduced, one pair may not have fully recharged in time whilst using a second pair depending how often you are vaping . Three pairs would make sure you were covered put it that way .

Glad you asked to double check your setup BTW . Nice one .

Happy vaping and enjoy your new set up safely with some decent VTC5A's .

Cheers for that.

Yes, I keep pairs married.

I've ordered 4 VTC5A's and paid for next day delivery so should get them Tuesday.

I've actually been conversing with Lauren at Fogstar via email tonight and they're going to take the batteries I have back and give a refund... really good of them. Lauren knows her stuff.

No, the batteries and mod weren't getting warm or at least didn't seem to be?

I was reading the Amazon reviews for the batteries I have and a fair few people were using them in the Smok Alien at 70W and were giving the batteries 5 star ratings! The first reviewer says he vapes between 80-100W.

I guess the thing is that none of the batteries seem to tell you the max wattage you can use them with in an e-cigarette?

As I mentioned, I hope I haven't damaged my G-PRIV but all seems well and obviously the safety cut out feature it has seems to work.

 

[Simon G]

There's a few things you need to remember @LeamingtonSpaceman ... in reality none of these batteries are 'designed' or made for vaping and most of the battery companies would probably rather you didn't use them for vaping, they aren't even really 'consumer' cells, that's why they don't have any proper branding or packaging.

Companies put out 200/300w mods, supply them without cells. Leaving it totally down to the consumer to find and use suitable ones and lets be honest most people don't have a clue, I didn't 8 months ago either, so it's not a dig at anyone. It's a pretty mad situation really.

 

[LeamingtonSpaceman]

There's a few things you need to remember @LeamingtonSpaceman ... in reality none of these batteries are 'designed' or made for vaping and most of the battery companies would probably rather you didn't use them for vaping, they aren't even really 'consumer' cells, that's why they don't have any proper branding or packaging.

Companies put out 200/300w mods, supply them without cells. Leaving it totally down to the consumer to find and use suitable ones and lets be honest most people don't have a clue, I didn't 8 months ago either, so it's not a dig at anyone. It's a pretty mad situation really.

I agree.

I'm trying to understand how you know which batteries to use in your set-up?

What are the maths that tell you you need to use a Sony VTC5A in a set up like mine and that my current usage is wrong?

So grateful to those who have posted and advised me but I wouldn't know how to work this out myself?

 

[WaitFor1t88]

great advice above,

from mooch
"Here's how I do it...
As an example, the RX200 has a maximum wattage rating of 200W. Since it uses three batteries that means each battery supplies 200W / 3 = 67W. For dual parallel or series 150W devices each battery supplies 150W / 2 = 75W. You use this method for series or parallel devices, it doesn't matter.

Once you have the maximum wattage for each battery then you can use the following formula to determine the maximum amount of current that can be drawn from each battery...

Max Amps Per Battery = Max Wattage Per Battery / Minimum Voltage Per Battery

For the RX200 the minimum possible cutoff voltage is 9.0V, which is 3.0V per battery (unless you set the cutoff higher). For most other devices the minimum is 3.2V or 3.1V per battery. Let's use the Sigelei 150W TC device as an example. This device has a minimum battery voltage of 6.4V, which is 3.2V per battery...

Max Amps Per Battery = 75W / 3.2V = 23.4A

So you want a battery that can safely supply 23.4A of current if you're using the mod at its maximum rating of 150W.

 

[Arctic_Wolf]

Cheers for that.

Yes, I keep pairs married.

I've ordered 4 VTC5A's and paid for next day delivery so should get them Tuesday.

I've actually been conversing with Lauren at Fogstar via email tonight and they're going to take the batteries I have back and give a refund... really good of them. Lauren knows her stuff.

No, the batteries and mod weren't getting warm or at least didn't seem to be?

I was reading the Amazon reviews for the batteries I have and a fair few people were using them in the Smok Alien at 70W and were giving the batteries 5 star ratings!

I guess the thing is that none of the batteries seem to tell you the max wattage you can use them with in an e-cigarette?

As I mentioned, I hope I haven't damaged my G-PRIV but all seems well and obviously the safety cut out feature it has seems to work.

Fogstar are bloody good, it's awesome of them to take those cells back and you buy your new VTC5A's . Most vendors just will not take back a used battery (or unused for that matter) . More good luck for you .

Am assuming Lauren also advised you to go with VTC5A for your current mod and set up too ???

With your new found knowledge, you really should add your own review to Amazon to warn people of the dangers of using high mAh low Amp CDR cells in high wattage devices and/or using them at higher wattage . 10 Amp 3500 mAh cells just aren't advisable in mods like an Alien at 70 watts!! Advise future buyers to buy cells with a higher CDR from Fogstar too for their vaping needs, or refer them to good old POTV if they have questions for choosing the right batteries for higher wattage vaping .

When it comes to 18650's you just need to bare in mind it's always a bit of a trade off. If you go with high mAh the batteries will always have a lower Amp CDR. If you go for cells that have a higher Amp CDR, they'll have a lower mAh. Both have their respective uses, pros and cons depending exactly what you need them for. The VTC5A's are a really nice balance of a safe 25 Amp CDR with a very respectable 2600mAh too .

I've got a couple of 18650 torches and will be getting a couple more. Will definitely be buying some of the Fogstar 3500 mAh's for the new torches .

No!! Your mod shouldn't be damaged .

As @simong has pointed out too. Manufacturers are ultimately designing mods to use cells that were NEVER intended to be used loose or individually by the general public. Ultimately, they're designed for use in power packs for laptops, power tools, hybrid cars, hover boards, Segways, you name it, the list goes on!!

@conanthewarrior wrote up a handy guide for calculating using these cells in REGULATED mods here (the calculations for a mech differ).... https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/...lating-amp-load-using-a-regulated-mod.128294/

 

[LeamingtonSpaceman]

Guys... I can't believe how helpful all of you are being. Thanks so much.

This battery business really gets your head in a spin but I think I'm getting it now....

 

[conanthewarrior]

Everyone has given fantastic advice, and it is good to hear that you have different batteries on the way for your needs now, especially as they have taken back the others and exchanged them for you

I assume the G Priv has the same cut off as the Alien, which is quite low at around 2.8V per cell. Because of this, you was drawing up to 29.76A! But, that is if the mods protections did not work, which they seemed to have here.

The good thing here though is what I have said before, in that if you are using batteries that are not up to the job, you should get a weak battery message, or the device won't even fire at all due to the voltage collapsing where too much is being demanded from the batteries.
This is why I like regulated mods, and think even the higher power, dual and triple 18650 mods are OK even for newer vapers, even if you did something silly you should be fine due to the way they work.

As @Arctic_Wolf explained, I wrote a guide here on calculating amp load on a regulated mod- https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/...lating-amp-load-using-a-regulated-mod.128294/

That is fairly long though, all it is in easier terms is your watts used, divided by the cut off input voltage. Divide again by 0.9 for 90% efficiency.

So in your case, 150/5.6/0.9=29.76A. This would be with the batteries at cut off though, you would have a lower amp load than this the majority of the time so a 25A battery would be perfect. Even a 20A battery like a 25R wouldn't be too bad, a lot of us used these in higher power box mods for a long time.

Depending on your mod, this will vary, but is usually somewhere between 6.4-5.6V for a regulated mod. The lower the cut off voltage, the higher the possible amp load.

 

[LeamingtonSpaceman]

Everyone has given fantastic advice, and it is good to hear that you have different batteries on the way for your needs now, especially as they have taken back the others and exchanged them for you

I assume the G Priv has the same cut off as the Alien, which is quite low at around 2.8V per cell. Because of this, you was drawing up to 29.76A! But, that is if the mods protections did not work, which they seemed to have here.

The good thing here though is what I have said before, in that if you are using batteries that are not up to the job, you should get a weak battery message, or the device won't even fire at all due to the voltage collapsing where too much is being demanded from the batteries.
This is why I like regulated mods, and think even the higher power, dual and triple 18650 mods are OK even for newer vapers, even if you did something silly you should be fine due to the way they work.

As @Arctic_Wolf explained, I wrote a guide here on calculating amp load on a regulated mod- https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/...lating-amp-load-using-a-regulated-mod.128294/

That is fairly long though, all it is in easier terms is your watts used, divided by the cut off input voltage. Divide again by 0.9 for 90% efficiency.

So in your case, 150/5.6/0.9=29.76A. This would be with the batteries at cut off though, you would have a lower amp load than this the majority of the time so a 25A battery would be perfect. Even a 20A battery like a 25R wouldn't be too bad, a lot of us used these in higher power box mods for a long time.

Depending on your mod, this will vary, but is usually somewhere between 6.4-5.6V for a regulated mod. The lower the cut off voltage, the higher the possible amp load.

Another really helpful post... thank you.

Out of interest... how do you find out the cut-off voltage? Is it something that is specified by the manufacturer?

So when you know the cut-off voltage do you simply multiply that by the number of batteries in the device?

 

[conanthewarrior]

Another really helpful post... thank you.

Out of interest... how do you find out the cut-off voltage? Is it something that is specified by the manufacturer?

So when you know the cut-off voltage do you simply multiply that by the number of batteries in the device?

Hi mate, no problem.

The guide I linked to I wrote, it explains how to calculate for all mods-single, dual, triple etc.

The cut off is generally in the instructions under the input voltage. Not all manufacturers print this though so you may have to do a bit of searching online for it.

You divide your wattage by the cut off voltage, that is the simplest way to explain it. The full equation is actually Watts/single cell min voltage/number of batteries/efficiency, or you can skip the single battery minimum voltage divided by number of batteries and just use the series input voltage- try them both and you will see it works out exactly the same either way.

No multiplying, just dividing .

(By the way, / means divided by).

EDIT: So for example, to calculate for 100W with a 6.4V cut off, the calculation would be- 100/6.4/0.9=17.36A.

Try it out with a cut off of 5.6V and tell me what you get, if its right you have it down .