Became intolerant to vaping after a decade

[rew]

Small update - I had assumed I had just (for some reason) become intolerant to all vaping - VG worse than PG, but even PG gives some mucus.

However, then the same thing (2 hour attack of thick mucus) has happened after eating a couple of times in the last 3-4 days now. Which got me thinking - this is more like I've just become more generally allergic to things that hit my throat, rather than just vaping alone.

I scratched my head and thought what had changed recently in my diet/lifestyle, and the only thing new is creatine supplementation, which I started 3 or so weeks ago.

Did a bit of Googling, and lo and behold, creatine is implicated in multiple studies as exacerbating allergic responses in the airways:

Effect of Creatine Supplementation on the Airways of Youth Elite Soccer Players - PMC

Owing to its well-established ergogenic potential, creatine is a highly popular food supplement in sports. As an oral supplement, creatine is considered safe and ethical. However, no data exist on the safety of creatine on lung function in athletes. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/10.1165/rcmb.2007-0108OC

Creatine Supplementation Augments Chronic Allergic Airway Inflammation and Remodelling: from Mice to Human Evidence

Creatine supplementation exacerbates asthma phenotype, but the cellular mechanisms involved in this response are unknown. Forty-Eight C57Bl/6 male mice (n = 2 x 6 mice/group) were distributed into Control (Co), Creatine (Cr), Ovalbumin (OVA) and Ovalbumin+Creatine (OVA+Cr) groups. A chronic...

erj.ersjournals.com

I also found a number of anecdotal reports on Reddit of people saying they started experiencing thick mucus after supplementing with creatine.

At the moment, this is just a hunch, but it's quite a big coincidence and there is evidence to support it.

I'll stop taking creatine today and monitor the situation - it can take 4-8 weeks to clear out the additional creatine from your body after supplementation however, so I'll have to wait a while before I can know one way or the other.

Fingers crossed you have found the source.

 

[Hoodlum]

Update after 1 week of stopping creatine - overall, the allergic state of my throat got a lot better, it's no longer flaring up after eating certain foods etc. I can take tiny little toots on the 100% PG liquid and only get very slight mucus. However, a deep rip still causes serious Bob Fleming issues.

Similar issues with creatine reported on Reddit, people said 4 weeks for the problem to clear up, so I shall continue to monitor...

At least I've got the nicotine pouches to shove under my lip, it's really not the same however!

 

[Xinte]

Just a thought but has your diet changed to consuming more dairy? Dairy definitely produces more mucous in the respiratory system and your tolerance to it can suddenly change causing you side effects, luckily there are lots of dairy free alternatives nowadays

 

[Hoodlum]

Just a thought but has your diet changed to consuming more dairy? Dairy definitely produces more mucous in the respiratory system and your tolerance to it can suddenly change causing you side effects, luckily there are lots of dairy free alternatives nowadays

Thanks for the suggestion.

Nothing has changed recently - I do consume a reasonable amount of dairy, but I have done my whole life.

I skip breakfast, just a black coffee and water until lunch, and the problem still occurs in the mornings.

 

[Hoodlum]

So some further updates (I'm sure you're all riveted by this, sorry )

All forms of artificial nicotine (gum, lozenges, vape juice, nicotine pouches) trigger off a 1-2 hour Bob Fleming attack when it hits the back of my throat. So the nicotine pouches had to go too.

0% nictine liquid, pure PG or VG, also triggers off Mr Fleming, so it's not just artificial nicotine causing the problem, but part of it.

I'm generally in a higher state of allergy most of the day, even when I don't do anything - wheezy, itchy eyes, clearing throat.

Now weirdly, in desperation yesterday I got an IQOS (heated tobacco product), and whilst it's a bit grim and too similar to smoking, as soon as I take a hit on the thing, all the wheezing, tight throat etc instantly disappears?? I've still got to clear my throat a bit, but it's like 10x better than before I hit it.

I've ordered some proper Swedish snus pouches now (the real tobacco ones, not the fake nicotine ones), so we'll see if I can tolerate those. I think probably, given it's not artificial.

There's also the option of something like a dynavap with pipe tobacco - heat it up to vaporise off the nicotine, without combusting it.

Got an appointment with ENT specialist in just over a week too, to try and get to the bottom of it.

 

[Tmax]

Definitely good idea to talk to an ENT specialist
Make sure they do some Spirometry testing on you to rule out mild COPD or Asthma
Both of which have allergy like symptoms

I assume you have already taken cetirizine OTC hayfever meds - they really help settle allergy symptoms especially at night

Post back after your checkup please

 

[Hoodlum]

Thanks for the suggestions - I'm seeing the ENT a week tomorrow, so I'll be sure to request those tests. You piqued my curiosity actually, so I've ordered a peak flow meter to give myself a basic idea.

Yeah I've tried the allergy meds - they reduce the symptoms maybe 25%, but nothing substantial.

A pattern I am noticing is that it's bad in the morning until lunch time, symptoms without even vaping anything or using nicotine pouches, and then clears up mid-afternoon for the rest of the day. I do 16/8 fasting, no breakfasts, so it makes me speculate there might be an element of GERDS since it goes after lunch? I don't feel any symptoms of that though.

Will report back... Swedish snus tobacco seems to be tolerated ok, so that and the occasional puff on the IQOS are sustaining the addiction for now!

 

[Tmax]

You are doing the right thing seeing the ENT doctor

No need to panic, if you have the beginnings of COPD it can be managed

The problems we all have is that with health we are subject to the "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" syndrome (after this, therefore because of this)

My COPD is very different on different days, I've messed around with my meds (on and off) - so much is also placebo - The Dr or nurse tries you on something different and wow it works until it doesn't

Please post back with what your Dr find out - Good luck !!!!

 

[Hoodlum]

Update - saw the ENT today. Diagnosis - *something* triggered my throat into a heightened state of irritability some 4-5 weeks ago. Since then, anything which is an irritant (like e-cig vapour, or artificial nicotine) has been causing a 10x stronger irritation reaction than it should. What that something is, is up for debate - acute stress can cause it apparently (although I don't recall having anything specific), or it might have been the highly-oxidised cludgy vape liquid I'd been vaping for weeks leading up to it. He'd never heard of creatine causing heightened allergies, although there is some literature on it.

He said not allergies - no other symptoms of allergies. Not COPD based on the fact I've no cough. I did forget to ask about the spirometer, my bad, although he was extremely certain I don't have COPD. The peak flow meter I got, I blew the thing off the top of the scale.

He shoved a fibre optic camera up my nose and down the back (not as bad as it sounds) - throat looks completely normal, no lumps, no swelling, no excess of mucus. The feeling of needing to clear my throat is in fact just mostly tightness and irritation.

He speculated I might have "silent acid reflux" (some 50% of people do apparently) which could be exacerbating the issue. Prescribed me some meds to control my stomach acid level. He was confident the issue would eventually just go away.

The condition has improved about 75% I'd say since the first week I had it. I still can't really vape, but the reaction is much less than it was. Nicotine pouches only cause mild irritation now, and Swedish snus causes none.

I'm going to leave off the meds a few more weeks, and see if it goes away by itself. If not, I'll give them a blast for 3 months (his recommendation).

Will report back in some time.

Fun & games!

 

[Tmax]

All sounds very promising - post back any updates, always useful for others in the future

Thanks