Can vaping make formal 'quitting' obsolete?

[steffijade]

I came across this story : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24744474 and was interested to see that according to the statistics, there has been a drop in the number of people setting a 'quit date' using NHS services.

Having used those very services myself to 'successfully' quit on more than one occasion, I'm dubious about their definition of quitting (apparently, that's not smoking for 2 weeks) as well as their general use of statistics.

I'm wondering if that reported drop in the figures has been caused by people giving up on NHS quitting services and just switching to vaping instead. That kind of makes sense to me... rather than keep trying the seemingly endless bouts of failed quit attempts and the associated patronisation/guilt tripping that goes hand in hand with them, are folk just thinking 'feck it.. I can do it on my own by vaping instead'?

The linked article cites concerns about the drop in numbers but seems to make no accounting for the effect that vaping might be having on current smokers. Is that 11% fall in the number of people setting quit dates caused by new vapers? And if so, why would these campaigners find it a 'worrying development'?

The answer seems simple enough to me. These campaigners gain positions of presumed authority (and in some cases, even earn a good living) by constantly demonising smokers and pushing the 'quit or die' mantra. This is despite the woeful long term success rates of people using these services (odd how they seem to class someone as a quitter after just 2 week's abstinence isn't it?).

Of course, as long as people keep jumping on the merry go round of being guilt tripped by 'you must quit or die', using these NHS services that don't work well in the long run, falling off the wagon to become a demonised, social leper again and having to start at 'you must quit or die' again, these campaigners have got themselves a nice little gravy train going.

They get to be oh so holier than thou, look down on and berate smokers, whilst at the same time coining it in. No wonder they find it a 'worrying development' ... their gravy train could be running out of steam.

If every smoker switched to vaping, their would be no need for 'quit counselors' and the associated services or holier than though, puritanical campaigners either. Also, Being as e-cigs aren't available on prescription, people would be able to give up tobacco with a zero cost to the public purse.

Are we seeing the beginning of the end for 'proper', official quitting services? If people can do it on their own and be successful in the long term by switching to vaping, is there actually any need for this kind of service anyway? Other than to provide people with jobs and make money for big pharma, perhaps not.

I know one thing for sure though... as long as I can still get my hands on nic base, I won't ever have to jump on that merry go round again and the 'quit or die' brigade have lost their presumed authority over me. For some reason, that makes me want to smile.

I sincerely hope that every other smoker gets to have that same felling of liberation.

 

[VaperCaper]

This is despite the woeful long term success rates of people using these services (odd how they seem to class someone as a quitter after just 2 week's abstinence isn't it?).

If they actually published long term quit rates as their headline report thing - then people would ask a lot of awkward questions like.

"Why are we paying so much of our tax money for shit that doesn't work?"

I am looking forward to them trying to claim that vapings impact on cigarette sales is down to them in a few years time once vaping starts replacing tobacco.


To all those that espouse the "quit or die" crap I have a newsflash for you.

Courtesy of the late and very Great Bill Hicks.


"Non Smokers die every day!"

If people prefer smoking and want to smoke then fair play to them. The whole point of life s to enjoy yourself as much as possible and try to get the best out of your time. If doing things that shorten your life expectancy also greatly improve your life enjoyment then crack on!

One of the reasons I became a vendor is the huge smile I get everytime someone tells me how much happier they are since they switched from smoking tobacco to vaping nicotine. I hope every smoker who wants to gets to experience that as well.

I still think that in 10 years from now very few people will smoke and most people will use vaping to get their nicotine rather than smoking.

 

[JoeSmart]

I personally think it doesn't make it obsolete.

Sure it replaces your nicotine delivery with a much healthier alternative. However it is just switching your addiction to a different, all be it less harmful, method of achieving your next "fix". - it is a still an addiction.

Some people will want to kick the addiction as well as the habit, and in which case vaping would probably not be the way to go, but it might be a good "middle man" as you can logically and easily reduce nicotine content until you no longer need it.

From a money point of view, vaping is a lot cheaper, that is if you are okay sticking with a CE4 ego starter kit and budget juice. But as I expect 90% of this site know, shiny stuff is a huge cash drain. If you could easily fund a smoking habit then that's fine, what you save on cigs can go on shinies and toys, but if you are on a budget, like me, where cigs had to be factored into every small paycheck, then it is still as much of a strain on your bank account as smoking. In my case it's a worse strain, possibly not as often, but as a young man once I get my eyes set on a new toy the wait to get it is agonising and when I buy a new toy it's a large chunk of money gone, rather than the small, regular amounts that come from smoking.

At the end of the day it can't make total quitting obsolete, because vaping is not total quitting, and total quitting will provide benefits that vaping won't, but not everybody seeks those benefits or needs them.

 

[steffijade]

I personally think it doesn't make it obsolete.

Sure it replaces your nicotine delivery with a much healthier alternative. However it is just switching your addiction to a different, all be it less harmful, method of achieving your next "fix". - it is a still an addiction.

Some people will want to kick the addiction as well as the habit, and in which case vaping would probably not be the way to go, but it might be a good "middle man" as you can logically and easily reduce nicotine content until you no longer need it.

From a money point of view, vaping is a lot cheaper, that is if you are okay sticking with a CE4 ego starter kit and budget juice. But as I expect 90% of this site know, shiny stuff is a huge cash drain. If you could easily fund a smoking habit then that's fine, what you save on cigs can go on shinies and toys, but if you are on a budget, like me, where cigs had to be factored into every small paycheck, then it is still as much of a strain on your bank account as smoking. In my case it's a worse strain, possibly not as often, but as a young man once I get my eyes set on a new toy the wait to get it is agonising and when I buy a new toy it's a large chunk of money gone, rather than the small, regular amounts that come from smoking.

At the end of the day it can't make total quitting obsolete, because vaping is not total quitting, and total quitting will provide benefits that vaping won't, but not everybody seeks those benefits or needs them.

The thing I was pondering is if formal, organised smoking cessation schemes would begin to disappear. Sure, there are people who would want to quit nicotine entirely (I used to be one of them but found I just don't function very well without it) but there are people who have used vaping to quit completely and if they can do this successfully without smoking cessation services, then do we really need them?

Most of the people who I know that vape are happy enough to continue vaping and have no firm plans to totally quit. Given that vaping is a much safer alternative than tobacco smoking, the anti smoking brigade have little or no call to want to get vapers to quit totally.

They spout rubbish about gateway theories and try to distort studies into nicotine in attempts to perpetuate their gravy train but they're clutching at straws imho.

If smoking cessation services really want to be successful then they could do a lot worse than give everyone who signs up a decent vaping device. The object of smoking cessation is to stop smoking and by switching to vaping, a smoker can do exactly that... vaping isn't smoking, no matter how much the antis want to try and tar it with the same brush.

 

[JoeSmart]

The thing I was pondering is if formal, organised smoking cessation schemes would begin to disappear. Sure, there are people who would want to quit nicotine entirely (I used to be one of them but found I just don't function very well without it) but there are people who have used vaping to quit completely and if they can do this successfully without smoking cessation services, then do we really need them?

Most of the people who I know that vape are happy enough to continue vaping and have no firm plans to totally quit. Given that vaping is a much safer alternative than tobacco smoking, the anti smoking brigade have little or no call to want to get vapers to quit totally.

They spout rubbish about gateway theories and try to distort studies into nicotine in attempts to perpetuate their gravy train but they're clutching at straws imho.

If smoking cessation services really want to be successful then they could do a lot worse than give everyone who signs up a decent vaping device. The object of smoking cessation is to stop smoking and by switching to vaping, a smoker can do exactly that... vaping isn't smoking, no matter how much the antis want to try and tar it with the same brush.

I see what you're getting at now. I think that vaping would have higher success rates than patches, inhalers or gum because it provides a way to satisfy other habits, like exhaling something visible, a taste (even tobacco can be replicated) and a hand to mouth action. That doesn't mean formal cessation groups aren't needed, but it could give them another weapon in their arsenal. But I suspect more research would need to be done before groups like NHS Cessation help groups would be allowed to take on this approach.

 

[VaperCaper]

From a money point of view, vaping is a lot cheaper, that is if you are okay sticking with a CE4 ego starter kit and budget juice. But as I expect 90% of this site know, shiny stuff is a huge cash drain.

that's not quite true.

Vaping is a lot cheaper once you stick with <insert setup here> Eventually you'll settle on a device or devices and stick with it, or at least most people will. There's a kind of 'honeymoon period' where you try out lots of stuff, and shinyitus can kick in but it doesn't normally last that long. Of course some people will get the hobby bug and buy a lot of shiny things, but most people will get over that after a few months.

Once you have figured out your ideal setup then you're down to the cost of maintaining it (replacement heads or rebuilding supplies) and the cost of e-liquids, which are the same, pretty much whether your setup is an eGo and a CE5 or a Caravela with a Kayfun.

How much cheaper it ends up at that point depends on how much liquid you vape compared with how much you used to smoke.

Liquids not that pricey either. £7 per 10ml is the most expensive stuff I've bought to date (Pluid) if you get 'brand name' stuff you're normally looking at around £5 for 10ml which will set you back £2 a day ish add in the cost of a head on top and that's maybe £15 a week. Which is 2 packs of cigs or 2 25g pouches of rolling baccy.

 

[gettingthere]

I saw this article and immediately thought the rise in vaping was a likely factor. Must be a worrying trend for those companies with lucrative contracts to supply drugs and other 'quit' aids to the NHS.

 

[Chegs]

Everything supplied to the NHS appears to be @ an utterly ridiculous price(anyone recall the IT scheme that was eventually abandoned as it didn't work?)Ambulances must meet a minimum performance specification,a mate bought an ex-ambulance to convert to a mobile burger van that had a huge engine mated to an auto-box,fuel consumption was so high that he needed factor in £15 per day to cover the 9 miles he drove to the layby & back.So I'm guessing that the NHS supplied NRT products will also be supplied at ridiculous prices.I'm glad they don't supply vaping gear as your starter packs @ £20 will jump to £200,your (average price) e-liquid will go from say £6 per 10 ml to £60(and increase if you require higher nicotine content)The range of flavours will become restricted to only tobacco flavours(recall the massive explosion of Major Notachanceyourusingit of Tunbridge Wells type letters to the media about the Alcopops?)as availability of fruit flavours will be blamed for all the under-age smokers.I can picture the sales meetings where they're sat round a table thinking up ways to get vaping either under their control or sold to the NHS buyers.

 

[Citrus]

I'm wondering if that reported drop in the figures has been caused by people giving up on NHS quitting services and just switching to vaping instead. That kind of makes sense to me... rather than keep trying the seemingly endless bouts of failed quit attempts and the associated patronisation/guilt tripping that goes hand in hand with them, are folk just thinking 'feck it.. I can do it on my own by vaping instead'?

The linked article cites concerns about the drop in numbers but seems to make no accounting for the effect that vaping might be having on current smokers. Is that 11% fall in the number of people setting quit dates caused by new vapers? And if so, why would these campaigners find it a 'worrying development'?

Anecdata incoming. I made an appointment with an NHS smoking counsellor, who prescribed me 16hr nicotine patches. Being a first-thing-in-the-morning smoker and having been tripped up that way before, I decided to buy a cig-a-like for when I first woke up and to get me through any particularly rough patches. I quickly found that the e-cig was waaaaay more effective than the patches because the delivery mechanism felt like smoking (unlike those nicotine inhalator things that make a sad "phweeee" noise when you suck pathetically on them), so I never went back. Presumably, therefore, in the NHS figures I count as a failed quitter.

In reality, after fifteen years of smoking 20 a day, I've now gone more than two months without sucking a gungy cocktail of tar, cyanide, carbon monoxide and various other gross sludge into my lungs, something I didn't manage for more than a week or two at a time with patches, lozenges, sprays, inhalators or anything else the pharmaceutical industry had to offer me.

So yes, in my case, the reason I didn't go back to the NHS stop smoking service wasn't because I'm still smoking - it's because I found a more effective alternative.