ECigs in the TPD Voted Today and this is what happened!

[Lord Grim]

I keep harping back to motorbikes, but MAG and the BMF are both membership organisations which raise funds to pay for a central office and a lobbyist each.

On top of that, every European country has their own bike organisation fighting to protect riders rights and daft legislation...and co-fund FEMA, a European-based campaign organisation lobbying directly in Brussels.

It's that type of structure we need. There are many talented individuals out there who command both knowledge with a polished presentation technique.

£3 a month direct debit - would that hurt anyone?

It doesn't mean setting up a political party, every member has one vote, volunteer board members can be voted or co-opted on to lend their experience.

I really feel that if we stand the remotest chance of tackling the vested interests at play here we need to mobilise ourselves into a more professional group of vapers. We need to fight the battle on their terms. Emails and tweets do not work, they don't read them. A secretary looks and deletes or sends out a pro-forma reply.

Cromwell picked the ground he would defeat Charles' army at Naseby - we need that nous, to be proactive rather than reactive.

And we don't need to be split between vendors and users because if we don't move into an effective force son we leave all of our hopes with politicians doing the right thing. And they won't.

While I agree in principle with everything you say, your example organisation also throws up a few little issues that come about through organisation:

On the last protest ride I went on (rolling roadblocks to protest against compulsory hi-viz and modification limiting), it was MAG who advised that it was done on a Sunday to prevent causing too much drama, MAG who advised against riding into city centres and sticking to motorways, MAG who advised only blocking the left hand lane of said motorways and MAG who didn't publicise any of it, despite their involvement.

Now, the purpose of this is not to bash the MAG, who are a very worthy organisation who do a lot of work for bikers (I follow Leon Manning's escapades in parliament when I can), but to illustrate that when an action group becomes involved at a political and respectable level, they are forced to obey certain rules. Their hands are tied and they are prevented from using the "shock and awe" tactics needed by the very people they are fighting.

I'm not saying that organisation won't work, any idiot can see we need to become more cohesive, I'm just urging caution against becoming too organised.....

 

[Ninjaassasin1983]

While I agree in principle with everything you say, your example organisation also throws up a few little issues that come about through organisation:

On the last protest ride I went on (rolling roadblocks to protest against compulsory hi-viz and modification limiting), it was MAG who advised that it was done on a Sunday to prevent causing too much drama, MAG who advised against riding into city centres and sticking to motorways, MAG who advised only blocking the left hand lane of said motorways and MAG who didn't publicise any of it, despite their involvement.

Now, the purpose of this is not to bash the MAG, who are a very worthy organisation who do a lot of work for bikers (I follow Leon Manning's escapades in parliament when I can), but to illustrate that when an action group becomes involved at a political and respectable level, they are forced to obey certain rules. Their hands are tied and they are prevented from using the "shock and awe" tactics needed by the very people they are fighting.

I'm not saying that organisation won't work, any idiot can see we need to become more cohesive, I'm just urging caution against becoming too organised.....

good point about urging caution about becoming too organised

 

[V5throttle]

Some responses I've had from east mids MEPs;

Dear Chris,Thank you for the angry message.
E-cigarettes will continue to be available.
There will be some restrictions, more than I had wanted. But politics is the art of "what is possible". After many many months of democratic negotiations between the 28 national governments in the EU and us MEPs, what we voted through was the best possible achievable outcome from your and my point of view. The British government had wanted to make e-cigs only available with a medical prescription but we have over-ruled them. Conservative MEPs, totally contrary to their own government in London, are now pretending that they wanted total freedom for vapers - which is simply playing to the gallery) because that was never politically possible.
I will keep you informed.
All good wishes
Bill Newton Dunn, Lib Dem MEP

Dear Chris,

Thank you for this. I agree with your position on e-cigarettes, and voted accordingly.


I also agree that the EU is a mess. It is beyond reform and deserves to be put out of its misery. There was indeed a vote in the parliament, but the EU is certainly not democratic in any meaningful sense.


Can I do anything about it? Honestly, no. I have campaigned and argued against the TPD, but we lost the vote. http://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com/2013/09/04/eu-tobacco-policy-total-lunacy/ All I can ask you to do is to support UKIP and help us get Britain out of the EU. That is the only way to solve our problem.


Best regards.


ROGER HELMER MEP

Dear Chris

Mr Clark is currently away on business but the issue of E-cigs was debated in Strasbourg this week.


Please see the article below from Paul Nuttall, UKIP.


__________________________________________________________________________________________


UKIP environment spokesman Paul Nuttall MEP said today in Strasbourg:






"This latest Tobacco Directive from the EU will curb E-cigs, outlaw the smaller pouch of loose tobacco and ban menthol cigarettes by 2020.


By increasing the regulation of E-cigs as medical products to be sold in pharmacies, the EU is actually restricting a product which is actually helping people lower their dependence on tobacco.


IF their aim was to curb tobacco consumption, this directive will achieve the very opposite.


They EU has gone menthol by banning Menthol flavoured cigarettes outright in 2020, thus restricting peoples pleasure and bringing a bonanza for black market smugglers. Many people will continue to smoke Menthol cigarettes - this measure just reduces UK tax revenue.


The most stupid change is the banning of 20g pouches of roll-your-own-tobacco. It will simply force people to buy bigger pouches and smoke more. All totally ridiculous of course, but that is the EU for you.


All this stupidity is compounded by the fact that the MEPs voted on this last year, but their decisions were in a number of cases were overturned by the European Council and Commission. It is indeed also a travesty of democracy - if there is such a thing in the EU."
____________________________________________________________________________________________


Kind regards




Carren Burrows
P.A. to Derek Clark MEP


The office of Derek Clark MEP
UK Independence Party

Way too much dismissive posturing for my liking, particularly as we're supposed to employ them. The Lib Dem in particular pissed me off.

 

[Tubbyengineer]

I just commented on this in a PM.

I think the solution is for ECITA and ECCA to get together.

They have the brand presence, they have community awareness. It needs them to coordinate and then adopt a membership scheme. I'm just throwing random thoughts out there and most of my thoughts tend to be shit...but this is what's running through my head at the moment.

Then have regional reps to organise monthly vapemeets, fundraisers, attend local community events and man a stall to disseminate information to the public to spread the message. We need to work at getting the message not just to politicians but to the public at large, we need a massive PR campaign based around volunteers spreading the news about the science and the personal stories.

It needs a couple of respected characters to put their heads above the parapet and say 'yes, I'll head this' and delegate.

All of this could be utter bollocks - but it's all I've got at half-past bedtime.

Mawsley, It's not utter bollocks it's what should have been happening all along...

 

[anthonyb]

Nope, UKIP next time around

Yes, hats off to my local UKIP mep, for being the only mp/mep I got a reply from. But it's a shame he isn't listed as voting in the TPD. Either was missed of the list, or didn't bother.

As for anything else mentioned, count me in, I'll help, when and where I can.
And for some things mentioned, I'm gonna STFU

 

[Mawsley]

While I agree in principle with everything you say, your example organisation also throws up a few little issues that come about through organisation:

On the last protest ride I went on (rolling roadblocks to protest against compulsory hi-viz and modification limiting), it was MAG who advised that it was done on a Sunday to prevent causing too much drama, MAG who advised against riding into city centres and sticking to motorways, MAG who advised only blocking the left hand lane of said motorways and MAG who didn't publicise any of it, despite their involvement.

Now, the purpose of this is not to bash the MAG, who are a very worthy organisation who do a lot of work for bikers (I follow Leon Manning's escapades in parliament when I can), but to illustrate that when an action group becomes involved at a political and respectable level, they are forced to obey certain rules. Their hands are tied and they are prevented from using the "shock and awe" tactics needed by the very people they are fighting.

I'm not saying that organisation won't work, any idiot can see we need to become more cohesive, I'm just urging caution against becoming too organised.....

I know what you mean but I use the examples of the 80s/90s protests because at that time biking faced the same over-zealous threats that vaping does now. The parallel situations demand parallel responses.

We need to demonstrate en masse. We need a show of strength and all that needs organising for that is a date for the largest vapemeet in the world at the doorstep of the European parliament.

And anything I'm involved with would never be too organised

 

[Mawsley]

this is a really great idea we should setup a thread to see who would be interested in contributing and what structure the organisation would have - I would definitely be interested in helping and contributing I don't think i'd make a good spokesperson but I'd be happy to do the legwork office stuff research and whatnot I think a fiver a month is pretty fair for an organisation who are actually going to stand for our rights demnd answers and get in the faces of the ruling lot.

There will always be willing volunteers.

What I'm calling for is someone like Dorn to stand up and front it.

For my money the man has the experience, the knowledge and the drive. He is ideal.

If he did I'd give all of my free time to support him and force this through to make it work.

I'm an argumentative, bolshy fucker with little time for idiots and stupidity...but a lot of time and respect for that man.

 

[Ninjaassasin1983]

There will always be willing volunteers.

What I'm calling for is someone like Dorn to stand up and front it.

For my money the man has the experience, the knowledge and the drive. He is ideal.

If he did I'd give all of my free time to support him and force this through to make it work.

I'm an argumentative, bolshy fucker with little time for idiots and stupidity...but a lot of time and respect for that man.

my sentiments exactly buddy

 

[pogle]

Katherine Devlin,head of ECITA was a guest on VTTV tonight and said that hers and other organisations across Europe would,as soon as any TPD legislation is implemented,be immediately challenging it in court.Apparently no legal challenge can be mounted against the TPD until a particular country implements it in law,it should be up on youtube fairly soon-lots more info on there and worth checking out if you didn't catch the live show...

 

[Ninjaassasin1983]

Katherine Devlin,head of ECITA was a guest on VTTV tonight and said that hers and other organisations across Europe would,as soon as any TPD legislation is implemented,be immediately challenging it in court.Apparently no legal challenge can be mounted against the TPD until a particular country implements it in law,it should be up on youtube fairly soon-lots more info on there and worth checking out if you didn't catch the live show...

if they implement it I'd be quite happy to stand outside parliament vaping and see how long it takes to be arrested