Just starting out - what chemicals / flavourings should I avoid??

[Darthpistachio]

I'm just starting out in the area of DIY and I have to admit regarding certain things I'm at a little bit of a loss to understand what is safe and what isn't.

I've read that ALL custard or buttery flavourings will have diacetyl in them in trace amounts enough to be harmful - or a substitute substance that has the ability to create nasty stuff when heated and should be avoided.
I've read - (after I ordered some flavours I might add) that things like apple pie and caramel have the potentially harmful substitute in them also - gutted as those were two flavours I ordered
I've read that sucralose as a sweetener shouldn't be vaped (ugh I ordered PA sweetener - a sucralose base)
I've read that ethyl alcohol shouldn't be vaped (ugh I ordered PA tutti frutti - it has ethyl alcohol in it!)

Am I faced with having to chuck most of my first flavours order away and get substitutes like Ethyl Maltol instead? Is the DV apple pie and caramel I've ordered safe to vaporize? Is the PA tutti frutti I ordered safe to vape?

So I guess I need to know what Capella and DV and PA favourings I should avoid if I want to totally eliminate any "known" risks
Should I vape anything with ethyl alcohol in it?
Should I not vape sucralose?

Help is much appreciated!

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

I've read that ALL custard or buttery flavourings will have diacetyl in them in trace amounts enough to be harmful - or a substitute substance that has the ability to create nasty stuff when heated and should be avoided.

Not all will have diacetyl in them, I dont know which ones dont, but there are ones that dont.

I've read - (after I ordered some flavours I might add) that things like apple pie and caramel have the potentially harmful substitute in them also - gutted as those were two flavours I ordered

What substitute is that? As I have never read that in the last year I have been vaping

I've read that sucralose as a sweetener shouldn't be vaped (ugh I ordered PA sweetener - a sucralose base)

PA Sweetener has been tested and is considered safe for vaping. Sucralose like your artificial sweetener you pick up in ASDA, should NOT be used. There is a major difference.

I've read that ethyl alcohol shouldn't be vaped (ugh I ordered PA tutti frutti - it has ethyl alcohol in it!)

Also know as a GRAIN ALCOHOL... like Vodka... its ok to use vodka in mixes.

Am I faced with having to chuck most of my first flavours order away and get substitutes like Ethyl Maltol instead? Is the DV apple pie and caramel I've ordered safe to vaporize? Is the PA tutti frutti I ordered safe to vape?

So I guess I need to know what Capella and DV and PA favourings I should avoid if I want to totally eliminate any "known" risks
Should I vape anything with ethyl alcohol in it?
Should I not vape sucralose?

What I think is happening here is a case of, you are "reading too much" and working yourself up into a frenzy for no reason.

You need to understand and take into consideration ANYTHING we put into our body that is not there naturally can be harmful to an extent. In this case, Vaping is safer than smoking, but there is a very small percentage of things that can be considered "unsafe" used in vaping, which are so minute in vaping, that the amount is minuscule and undetectable in most cases and has NO EFFECT on human health in their vaping form. And is still by far hundreds if not thousands of times safer than smoking.



http://wiki.planetofthevapes.co.uk/wiki/Studies <--- Growing compilation of many studies (including ECITA's own documentation into studies, clinical research, and surveys)

 

[Darthpistachio]

Not all will have diacetyl in them, I dont know which ones dont, but there are ones that dont.
What substitute is that? As I have never read that in the last year I have been vaping

The substitutes are listed on this page here http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/flavoringlung/diacetyl_worker_alert.html the one of most concern is the 2,3 pentanedione which is a common substitute apparently. A company can truthfully state there is no diacetyl but if they then substitute with that is there then any real tangible benefit?

Also know as a GRAIN ALCOHOL... like Vodka... its ok to use vodka in mixes.

I'm unsure on that - it's generally acknowledged that you shouldn't inhale alcohol isn't it - its quite damaging to the lungs??

What I think is happening here is a case of, you are "reading too much" and working yourself up into a frenzy for no reason.
You need to understand and take into consideration ANYTHING we put into our body that is not there naturally can be harmful to an extent. In this case, Vaping is safer than smoking, but there is a very small percentage of things that can be considered "unsafe" used in vaping, which are so minute in vaping, that the amount is minuscule and undetectable in most cases and has NO EFFECT on human health in their vaping form. And is still by far hundreds if not thousands of times safer than smoking.

On a certain level I would agree totally with me getting a little worked up - And I totally understand the arguments against and versus the old cigarette. But if you're gonna swap to something less harmful it's best to avoid substances that you "know" would cause definite harm over time - as vapers if we used the suspect flavours long enough that would be akin to chronic exposure over a duration of YEARS which could lead to complications down the road that are even worse than the fags - nasty as we already know that they are.

So if we can avoid those as best we can - and we have an array of flavours that bear no issues that we know of at present - wouldn't it be prudent to concentrate on vaping the ones with little to no known risks with the current knowledge we have of them??

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

So if we can avoid those as best we can - and we have an array of flavours that bear no issues that we know of at present - wouldn't it be prudent to concentrate on vaping the ones with little to no known risks with the current knowledge we have of them??

Personally, I understand and recognize that vaping in its current state may not be as "safe" as a padded room, but it is my choice to vape what I like and adhere to general vaping "rules" or advice provided by the community or by great organisations like Clearstream http://clearstream.flavourart.it/site/?lang=en or ECITA which provides (@doodlebug correct me if I am wrong) testing of liquids to its members(or vendors) to ensure product standards.

The best avoidance, is inhaling anything you shouldnt be... AT ALL. But if I had a choice between smoking and vaping, I would choose vaping every day. Since vaping is getting the studies and research it needs to verify its relative safety, I am confident that I am not killing myself and 1-5 years even 10 years of vaping will never ever have the effect on me that smoking did in the same amount of time. Why would I worry about diacetyl free flavourings? Which any vaper who is looking into mixing should also be told to avoid it....http://wiki.planetofthevapes.co.uk/wiki/Main_Page#DIY I even made sure to include a warning about it on our Wiki page.


I also do not know of ANY flavouring we use for vaping to contain "Diacetyl Substitutes" If it has them in them, don't use them, simples.

I also feel, we probably arent inhaling them at anything more than 2-5% concentration levels (quite possibly even far less!) anyways. People who suffer things like popcorn lung, were inhaling this stuff upwards of 12 hours a day 5-7 days a week in nearly 100% concentrations.

 

[EthelKing]

I'm just starting out in the area of DIY and I have to admit regarding certain things I'm at a little bit of a loss to understand what is safe and what isn't.

I've read that ALL custard or buttery flavourings will have diacetyl in them in trace amounts enough to be harmful - or a substitute substance that has the ability to create nasty stuff when heated and should be avoided.
I've read - (after I ordered some flavours I might add) that things like apple pie and caramel have the potentially harmful substitute in them also - gutted as those were two flavours I ordered
I've read that sucralose as a sweetener shouldn't be vaped (ugh I ordered PA sweetener - a sucralose base)
I've read that ethyl alcohol shouldn't be vaped (ugh I ordered PA tutti frutti - it has ethyl alcohol in it!)

Am I faced with having to chuck most of my first flavours order away and get substitutes like Ethyl Maltol instead? Is the DV apple pie and caramel I've ordered safe to vaporize? Is the PA tutti frutti I ordered safe to vape?

So I guess I need to know what Capella and DV and PA favourings I should avoid if I want to totally eliminate any "known" risks
Should I vape anything with ethyl alcohol in it?
Should I not vape sucralose?

Help is much appreciated!

DO NOT use anything that is oil or fat based or containing. Inhaling oils and fats causes a condition known as lipid pneumonia (simple reference; complex reference) - which is difficult to diagnose in it's early stages and can be fatal in the later stages. It is uncommon, so therefore wouldn't necessarily be considered as a diagnosis until a late stage.

 

[Bryan123456]

I don't think any lab in its right mind would choose to add a diacetyl substitute. Diacetyl is an unwanted by-product of extracting flavours - mainly from dairy products and should be avoided as (a) it is seen as the cause of 'popcorn lung' (b) It has been linked to alzheimer's. Professional flavour houses producing specifically for vaping will ensure it is excluded. If in doubt, stick to FA and PA concentrates.

Having said that Cupcake World provide detailed data sheets on their flavourings - a good benchmark other manufacturers may wish to consider following.

 

[Darthpistachio]

KulrMeStoopid - I think I might need to point out that I don't need convincing of the benefits and merits of vaping as opposed to smoking tobacco I have no intention for the foreseeable future of giving up vaping and I know fully how much more beneficial it is to smoking. Indeed that's why I'm going the DIY route - so I can assure myself to a greater degree of the contents of my juice and tailor it even more to myself and my wife's tastes in order to ensure that we stay vaping. Myself I won't go back to the cigs - the missus is a constant battle though as she is always craving the stinkies and I need to find something to satiate her cravings and tastes.

My point was simply this - And conceding that I am new to the vaping scene compared to those who have been at it for years as opposed to my meagre 4 months - but it appears to me that Diacetyl was removed early on from food flavourings for a good reason and those reasons were due solely to vaping by the look of it ?? - because ingesting Diacetyl simply does not pose any risk ..

Now - you can't just stop using cyanide if you're gonna use arsenic instead!. So if they drop Diacetyl only to use a substitute to get the old flavour back then in truth what is the point in that? Especially if the substitute is proving to cause exactly the same damages as the thing it replaced? If the vaping community made a justified fuss about Diacetyl should they not ask exactly the same questions about the substitute that is possibly/could be being used? that just seems logical to me...

So that was my point - we'll only know if the flavour makers are using the substitute if they actually tell us and if we ask whether they are indeed using it.. and the flavours where they could be using it would be the same flavours that used to have the diacetyl in them.

I also feel, we probably arent inhaling them at anything more than 2-5% concentration levels (quite possibly even far less!) anyways. People who suffer things like popcorn lung, were inhaling this stuff upwards of 12 hours a day 5-7 days a week in nearly 100% concentrations.

Well that would actually be impossible because if they were inhaling 100% concentration then they would have been inhaling nothing else apart from Diacetyl - which would obviously kill them! The lack of Oxygen alone would have been an issue! (sorry my smart arse gene kicked in there) interestingly rats were found to suffer major damage after exposure of 6 hours to a concentration of 294.6 PPM. This equates to 0.003 ml diacetyl per 10ml of juice vaped to cause the similar effect theoretically - a concentration of just 0.03% !! So logically even a minute trace amount is a cause for concern - one reason it might be best to avoid organic fruit flavourings as diacetyl is a by product of alcohol fermentation in fruits and beer etc?? But it still must be said that research isn't conclusive on this - it suggest that Diacetyl might be the cause but is uncertain whether it is part of a catalyst sequence or simply a marker for the disease.

• But Yes we are not rats
• and Yes the workers were exposed to a LOT of diacetyl
• and Yes they were exposed over a long time and
• Yes not all the workers developed the disease in question

The diacetyl debate has raged for a long time I can see that - BUT it comes down to are you comfortable with the risk or not - that's a question only the individual can answer.... myself I think I would like to avoid that particular risk if I can and that's why I ask which flavours might by their nature have even a trace of diacetyl or the subs in them.. As far as I am aware of the thousands of other flavourings that could equally pose a concern in time -- diacetyl is the only one that has the potential to cause an Irreversible disease.

 

[Vapertron]

Anyone know if the Capella vanilla custard has diacetyl in it l just got some and this completely skipped my mind

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

BUT it comes down to are you comfortable with the risk or not - that's a question only the individual can answer.... myself I think I would like to avoid that particular risk if I can and that's why I ask which flavours might by their nature have even a trace of diacetyl or the subs in them.. As far as I am aware of the thousands of other flavourings that could equally pose a concern in time -- diacetyl is the only one that has the potential to cause an Irreversible disease.

I am, comfortable because I do my research and I am not using products containing Diacetyl or other substitutes that are in such concentration that they would harm me beyond repair.

I guess I just don't see a point in making a mountain out of a mole hill, us as SMOKERS sure as heck didn't break down our cigs and try to figure out what every last ingredient was, nor did the majority of us give a second thought to what it was doing to us.

I know THIS is safer than THAT and thats the most important thing to me. And as long as Organisations like ECITA, CASAA, and ClearStream keep fighting for our rights, more testing (which keeps showing the same positive results) I am more than happy doing what I do.

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

Anyone know if the Capella vanilla custard has diacetyl in it l just got some and this completely skipped my mind

They state they are diacetyl free.

http://capellaflavordrops.com/e-liquiduse.aspx