Poll: Domestic Covid Passports, yes or no?

[zouzounaki]

i think this thread has convinced me that i don’t agree with this passport idea at all. it’s a shite idea and has many ethics issues.

 

[andipandi]

Pregnant women shouldn't be in the pub getting boozed up anyway.

(he's joking, obviously lol)

Pubs are the lowest common denominator, this whole thing goes far deeper than pubs, extraordinarily so, we will just have to wait and see

 

[Simon G]

Pubs are the lowest common denominator, this whole thing goes far deeper than pubs, extraordinarily so, we will just have to wait and see

Yeah, I know ... it starts with you needing a Yellow Fever jab to go to South America and ends up with you needing one to have a pint.

I think a lot of this sounds slightly paranoid if I'm honest. If you agree that vaccinations have saved millions of lives and almost irradiated many serious illnesses that were common causes of premature death in the not so distant past, then it's more difficult to fall into the conspiracy hole.

 

[Rickster]

Said in jest I hope, is a pregnant woman unclean, just because she cant have the jab? Should she be subjected to abuse, ridicule and sanctions?

Of course it's in jest fella, and your response indicates it's a clear discriminatory division policy, that folks are not happy with... you can go there.... but the unvaccinated can't ....no card no entry.
There is no way a pub or concert or whatever is going to be arsed with genuine reasons as to why..... no card no entry is what it will be.

 

[andipandi]

Of course it's in jest fella, and your response indicates it's a clear discriminatory division policy, that folks are not happy with... you can go there.... but the unvaccinated can't ....no card no entry.

Quite

There is no way a pub or concert or whatever is going to be arsed with genuine reasons as to why..... no card no entry is what it will be.

It would appear that the hospitality industry is not particularly interested in enforcing a passport scheme, hence Boris seemingly wanting to bring in legislation, to force the industry into compliance.

 

[Rickster]

Quite



It would appear that the hospitality industry is not particularly interested in enforcing a passport scheme, hence Boris seemingly wanting to bring in legislation, to force the industry into compliance.

Shocking, we have all seen footage of folks not wearing masks for reasons..... being turfed out of places n arrested n shit.....this card nonsense will be worse, a contract has been awarded to somebody.....follow the money.

 

[andipandi]

follow the money.

It's all about the money, Covid is a new revenue stream, perverse in the extreme. Who's got rich from covid, the already rich, a bunch of well connected/ networked folk and the conglomerations. As Boris said, about the success of the vaccines, “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed, my friends,”

 

[Jd_]

Yeah, I know ... it starts with you needing a Yellow Fever jab to go to South America and ends up with you needing one to have a pint.

I think a lot of this sounds slightly paranoid if I'm honest. If you agree that vaccinations have saved millions of lives and almost irradiated many serious illnesses that were common causes of premature death in the not so distant past, then it's more difficult to fall into the conspiracy hole.

Its getting a little too close to 'needing your papers' when going somewhere. Something that is already going on here in the states, which is sad considering historically that was one of the major aspects ppl pointed to when discussing us being a free country

 

[andipandi]

Hundreds of UK church leaders have told the prime minister that plans to use vaccine passports for entry into venues is “one of the most dangerous policy proposals ever to be made in the history of British politics” with the “potential to bring about the end of liberal democracy as we know it”.

An open letter to Boris Johnson signed by more than 1,250 clergy from different Christian denominations across the UK says the “introduction of vaccine passports would constitute an unethical form of coercion and violation of the principle of informed consent”. It says people may have valid reasons for being unable or unwilling to be vaccinated against Covid, “including, for some Christians, serious issues of conscience related to the ethics of vaccine manufacture or testing”.

Covid status certificates would be “divisive, discriminatory, and destructive”, it adds. “We risk creating a two-tier society, a medical apartheid in which an underclass of people who decline vaccination are excluded from significant areas of public life. There is also a legitimate fear that this scheme would be the thin end of the wedge.

“This scheme has the potential to bring about the end of liberal democracy as we know it and to create a surveillance state in which the government uses technology to control certain aspects of citizens’ lives. As such, this constitutes one of the most dangerous policy proposals ever to be made in the history of British politics.”

The letter says there is no logical sense in terms of protecting others in introducing Covid status certificates as a requirement for entry for venues, which could include churches. “If the vaccines are highly effective in preventing significant disease, as seems to be the evidence from trial results to date, then those who have been vaccinated have already received protection; there is no benefit to them of other people being vaccinated,” it says.

Describing the proposal as “illiberal and dangerous”, the signatories say: “As Christian leaders we … envisage no circumstances in which we could close our doors to those who do not have a vaccine passport, negative test certificate, or any other ‘proof of health’. For the church of Jesus Christ to shut out those deemed by the state to be social undesirables would be anathema to us and a denial of the truth of the gospel.”

Many church leaders have backed efforts to persuade people to be vaccinated against Covid. The Give Hope campaign, launched in February, sought to dispel vaccination concerns, particularly among black churchgoers.

This week the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) told the Cabinet Office that Covid status certificates being considered by ministers risked creating a “two-tier society”.

According to a submission seen by the Guardian, the EHRC said Covid-status certificates could be a “proportionate” way of easing restrictions but said they risked further excluding groups among whom vaccine take-up is lower – including migrants, those from minority ethnic backgrounds and poorer socioeconomic groups.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...warn-against-dangerous-vaccine-passport-plans

 

[andipandi]

To: The Prime Minister Boris Johnson

April 2021

Dear Prime Minister,

As Christian leaders across a range of denominations, we continue to pray at this time for your government “and all in high positions, so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and dignity” (1 Timothy 2:2).

However, we write to you concerning an area of the most serious concern, namely the potential introduction into our society of so-called “vaccine passports” which have also been referred to as “COVID-status certificates” and “freedom passes”. We are wholly opposed to this suggestion and wish to make three points about the potential consideration of any scheme of this type.

Firstly, to make vaccination the basis of whether someone is allowed entry to a venue, or participation in an activity, makes no logical sense in terms of protecting others. If the vaccines are highly effective in preventing significant disease, as seems to be the evidence from trial results to date, then those who have been vaccinated have already received protection; there is no benefit to them of other people being vaccinated. Further, since vaccines do not prevent infection per se even a vaccinated person could in theory carry and potentially pass on the virus, so to decide someone’s “safe non-spreader” status on the basis of proof of their immunity to disease is spurious.

Secondly, the introduction of vaccine passports would constitute an unethical form of coercion and violation of the principle of informed consent. People may have various reasons for being unable or unwilling to receive vaccines currently available including, for some Christians, serious issues of conscience related to the ethics of vaccine manufacture or testing. We risk creating a two-tier society, a medical apartheid in which an underclass of people who decline vaccination are excluded from significant areas of public life. There is also a legitimate fear that this scheme would be the thin end of the wedge leading to a permanent state of affairs in which COVID vaccine status could be expanded to encompass other forms of medical treatment and perhaps even other criteria beyond that. This scheme has the potential to bring about the end of liberal democracy as we know it and to create a surveillance state in which the government uses technology to control certain aspects of citizens’ lives. As such, this constitutes one of the most dangerous policy proposals ever to be made in the history of British politics.

Finally, as Christian leaders we wish to state that we envisage no circumstances in which we could close our doors to those who do not have a vaccine passport, negative test certificate, or any other “proof of health”. For the Church of Jesus Christ to shut out those deemed by the state to be social undesirables would be anathema to us and a denial of the truth of the Gospel. The message we preach is given by God for all people and consists in nothing other than the free gift of grace offered in Christ Jesus, with the universal call to repentance and faith in him. To deny people entry to hear this life-giving message and to receive this life-giving ministry would be a fundamental betrayal of Christ and the Gospel. Sincere Christian churches and organisations could not do this, and as Christian leaders we would be compelled to resist any such Act of Parliament vigorously.

We draw your attention to the recent Judicial Review overturning the Scottish Government’s ban on public worship, which demonstrates that such disproportionate prevention of the right to worship is a clear infringement under Article 9 of the European Convention of Human Rights. We cannot see how any attempt to prevent people gathering for worship on the basis of either testing or non-vaccination would not similarly be ruled to be a breach. We agree with those members of Parliament who have already voiced opposition to this proposal: that it would be divisive, discriminatory and destructive to introduce any such mandatory health certification into British society. We call on the government to assert strongly and clearly that it will not contemplate this illiberal and dangerous plan, not now and not ever.

Yours sincerely,

• Rev Dr Jamie Franklin, Curate, St George in the Meadows, Nottingham, England
• Rev David Johnston, Minister Emeritus, Presbyterian Church in Ireland, Ireland
• Rev Dr William JU Philip, Minister, The Tron Church Glasgow, Scotland
• Rev A Paul Levy, Minister, Ealing International Presbyterian Church, London, England
• Rev Mez McConnell, Senior Minister, Niddrie Community Church, Director of 20schemes, Director of A29 Church in Hard Places, Scotland
• Mr Terence McCutcheon, Executive Director, Hope For Glasgow, Addiction Recovery Centre, Scotland

See the full list of signatories here