Phantom Diablo
Achiever
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2013
- Messages
- 3,087
well i have been in email correspondence with Ray story of TVECA asking to explain there actions and annoucement that they speak for all vapers and inistsing they do NOT back article 18 and push that the vote is split pointing out several clear flaws in the TPD and how it would affect us.
Ive also asked him cheekily to come along to POTV and explain TVECA actions to the almost 8000 members here who do not agree with what TVECA stands for.
the full correspondence is below ( im not someone who dabbles in politics and fancy words.. just a plain speaking bloke on the street so bear with some of my maybe slightly crass arguments . but they are for want of a better word. honest and not full of geek or politician speak
Ray
lets look at some of article 18 shall we
nicotine-containing liquid is only placed on the market in dedicated refill containers not exceeding a volume of 10 ml, in disposable electronic cigarettes or in single use cartridges and that the cartridges or tanks do not exceed a volume of 2 ml
this rules out the use of custom tanks drippers and the like ( no more will i be able to use my refillable Russian 91%
10ml containers. this not only puts up costs to vendors but a 30ml bottle would in effect be safe as there is the risk of choking on a 10ml bottle.
electronic cigarettes deliver the nicotine doses consistently;
impossible to even implement as proven. no such device exists. inhalation is based on the ohms of the coil, the length of the inhale, the amount of strength applied to the inhale.
a regulation that is impossible to put on a cigarette and impossible to put on an electronic cigarette.
electronic cigarettes and refill containers are child- and tamperproof; electronic cigarettes and the refill containers are protected against breakage and leakage and have a mechanism ensuring leakage free refilling.
so glass bottles would be excluded in this then?
as for the mechanism. again impossible to guarantee as any carto would need to be “punctured” to access the liquid thus posing possible chance of leakage if incorrectly fitted.
the liquid does not contain nicotine in excess of 20 mg/ml
totally unacceptable and unworkable level.
this will deter heavy smokers from switching from cigaretttes to ecigs
as for tax. im sorry but you would be ignorant and blind to ignore this. the huge pharmas and tobacco industries are already pushing into the ecig market to gain a controlling factor of which a high tax would be a likely outcome.
add to that the restrictions imposed on content, bottle size cartridge size etc and this would essentially wipe out everything but EGO style or cigalike ecigs which would have limited nictotine intake, a limited number of EU flavourings and a huge negative impact on those wishing to switch.
I would suggest maybe some one from TVECA come along to
http://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/forums/forum.php
and hear the voices of nearly 8000 ecig users and actually bother to find out what the vaper wants instead of making unfounded support claiming to be a voice for all.
From: Ray Story
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 3:20 PM
To: Dean
Subject: RE: [General Information] TVECA LIES
Dear Dean,
These are all valid points you bring up, however they are not all correct. your fears are not all without merit as are some of the limitations imposed on this category.
I had reservations about the nicotine strengths as well but France insisted on 2% max.
We wanted almost double that but ultimately we were out voted. Taxes also have not been discussed and ultimately are based on history of harm and the product.
Like I said Dean as long as you would like to have a candid mature conversation with me I am happy to fill you in on the discussions we have had and provide you with information that may clear up and dispel some of the rhetoric about article 18.
Sincerely yours,
Ray Story
Ray Story
www.tveca.com
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [General Information] TVECA LIES
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:32:01 +0000
Hi Ray
quite simply put by supporting article 18 TPD in its entirety will be the death knoll for ecigarettes. the restrictions that will be imposed on ecigs through article 18 as it currently stands will put such a stranglehold on ecigs that many people who may otherwise switch from cigarettes to ecigs will not make the switch and that long term vapors like myself and the thousands of others out there who enjoy not onlyt he vaping experience but the additional past time associated with it ( mech and mod custom devices, DIY juice mixing, tank coil building etc. All these will be in effect wiped out by article 18 with the choice and availability of ecigs severely limited to EU policy of tank size, Nictotine concentrate, flavour , device choice and add to that the increased cost with Tax the government will impose bringing them on a par with the cost of cigarette based products making them an unattractive and unaffordable option for many. Add to the number of lives this will cost due to those not switching to ecigs and staying with smoking because of the idiocy of the EU and the lies and mistruths they have concocted along with the misiniformation that has been given and the facts from proven scientists that have been twisted and misquoted if article 18 goes through in its current state the blood of many will be on the hands of the EU and those who support and coerce with article 18.
Article 18 MUST be split. there can be no alternative if it is to save the lives of millions
that is a fact and there is really no debate on that matter.
7000+ members of just one of many ecig forums plus the reports of scientists and specialists in the field cannot be wrong.
From: Ray Story
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [General Information] TVECA LIES
Dear Dean,
I appreciate your concerns,
I am happy to discuss any and all issues with you at your convenience. I can tell by the passion in your writing that you are serious about protecting this environment.
Please take the opportunity to reach out to me with a contact # so I can discuss any and all option that were presented to the TVECA and its coalition.
Please be aware that the French as well as the UK groups were involved up to the end in this discussion.
I am available for a candid mature discussion with all who would like to engage on this topic.
Sincerely yours,
Ray Story
Ray Story
www.tveca.com
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [General Information] TVECA LIES
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 08:26:29 -0500
>
> dean messenger ([email protected]) sent a message using the contact
> form at http://www.tveca.com/contact.
>
> As a vaper and member of an 8000 strong community of UK based vapers i am
> disgusted at the underhand tactics of TVECA claiming to support e-cigarettes
> when in fact you want to push article 18 TPD through in its entirety rather
> than push for a split vote.
> yo DO NOT speak for the vapers of the UK and we will do our utmost to put an
> end to your underhand deceitful tactics in the name of pro vaping.
>
Ive also asked him cheekily to come along to POTV and explain TVECA actions to the almost 8000 members here who do not agree with what TVECA stands for.
the full correspondence is below ( im not someone who dabbles in politics and fancy words.. just a plain speaking bloke on the street so bear with some of my maybe slightly crass arguments . but they are for want of a better word. honest and not full of geek or politician speak
Ray
lets look at some of article 18 shall we
nicotine-containing liquid is only placed on the market in dedicated refill containers not exceeding a volume of 10 ml, in disposable electronic cigarettes or in single use cartridges and that the cartridges or tanks do not exceed a volume of 2 ml
this rules out the use of custom tanks drippers and the like ( no more will i be able to use my refillable Russian 91%
10ml containers. this not only puts up costs to vendors but a 30ml bottle would in effect be safe as there is the risk of choking on a 10ml bottle.
electronic cigarettes deliver the nicotine doses consistently;
impossible to even implement as proven. no such device exists. inhalation is based on the ohms of the coil, the length of the inhale, the amount of strength applied to the inhale.
a regulation that is impossible to put on a cigarette and impossible to put on an electronic cigarette.
electronic cigarettes and refill containers are child- and tamperproof; electronic cigarettes and the refill containers are protected against breakage and leakage and have a mechanism ensuring leakage free refilling.
so glass bottles would be excluded in this then?
as for the mechanism. again impossible to guarantee as any carto would need to be “punctured” to access the liquid thus posing possible chance of leakage if incorrectly fitted.
the liquid does not contain nicotine in excess of 20 mg/ml
totally unacceptable and unworkable level.
this will deter heavy smokers from switching from cigaretttes to ecigs
as for tax. im sorry but you would be ignorant and blind to ignore this. the huge pharmas and tobacco industries are already pushing into the ecig market to gain a controlling factor of which a high tax would be a likely outcome.
add to that the restrictions imposed on content, bottle size cartridge size etc and this would essentially wipe out everything but EGO style or cigalike ecigs which would have limited nictotine intake, a limited number of EU flavourings and a huge negative impact on those wishing to switch.
I would suggest maybe some one from TVECA come along to
http://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/forums/forum.php
and hear the voices of nearly 8000 ecig users and actually bother to find out what the vaper wants instead of making unfounded support claiming to be a voice for all.
From: Ray Story
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 3:20 PM
To: Dean
Subject: RE: [General Information] TVECA LIES
Dear Dean,
These are all valid points you bring up, however they are not all correct. your fears are not all without merit as are some of the limitations imposed on this category.
I had reservations about the nicotine strengths as well but France insisted on 2% max.
We wanted almost double that but ultimately we were out voted. Taxes also have not been discussed and ultimately are based on history of harm and the product.
Like I said Dean as long as you would like to have a candid mature conversation with me I am happy to fill you in on the discussions we have had and provide you with information that may clear up and dispel some of the rhetoric about article 18.
Sincerely yours,
Ray Story
Ray Story
www.tveca.com
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [General Information] TVECA LIES
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:32:01 +0000
Hi Ray
quite simply put by supporting article 18 TPD in its entirety will be the death knoll for ecigarettes. the restrictions that will be imposed on ecigs through article 18 as it currently stands will put such a stranglehold on ecigs that many people who may otherwise switch from cigarettes to ecigs will not make the switch and that long term vapors like myself and the thousands of others out there who enjoy not onlyt he vaping experience but the additional past time associated with it ( mech and mod custom devices, DIY juice mixing, tank coil building etc. All these will be in effect wiped out by article 18 with the choice and availability of ecigs severely limited to EU policy of tank size, Nictotine concentrate, flavour , device choice and add to that the increased cost with Tax the government will impose bringing them on a par with the cost of cigarette based products making them an unattractive and unaffordable option for many. Add to the number of lives this will cost due to those not switching to ecigs and staying with smoking because of the idiocy of the EU and the lies and mistruths they have concocted along with the misiniformation that has been given and the facts from proven scientists that have been twisted and misquoted if article 18 goes through in its current state the blood of many will be on the hands of the EU and those who support and coerce with article 18.
Article 18 MUST be split. there can be no alternative if it is to save the lives of millions
that is a fact and there is really no debate on that matter.
7000+ members of just one of many ecig forums plus the reports of scientists and specialists in the field cannot be wrong.
From: Ray Story
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [General Information] TVECA LIES
Dear Dean,
I appreciate your concerns,
I am happy to discuss any and all issues with you at your convenience. I can tell by the passion in your writing that you are serious about protecting this environment.
Please take the opportunity to reach out to me with a contact # so I can discuss any and all option that were presented to the TVECA and its coalition.
Please be aware that the French as well as the UK groups were involved up to the end in this discussion.
I am available for a candid mature discussion with all who would like to engage on this topic.
Sincerely yours,
Ray Story
Ray Story
www.tveca.com
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [General Information] TVECA LIES
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 08:26:29 -0500
>
> dean messenger ([email protected]) sent a message using the contact
> form at http://www.tveca.com/contact.
>
> As a vaper and member of an 8000 strong community of UK based vapers i am
> disgusted at the underhand tactics of TVECA claiming to support e-cigarettes
> when in fact you want to push article 18 TPD through in its entirety rather
> than push for a split vote.
> yo DO NOT speak for the vapers of the UK and we will do our utmost to put an
> end to your underhand deceitful tactics in the name of pro vaping.
>
