What would we do if legislation stops the vaping trade

[askegi]

I will sign petitions and get angry for five minutes on Tuesdays.

I'll just pay someone else to do it for me.

 

[tachikoma]

I won't bother because you lot are doing it instead.

 

[scrumpox]

So, I've been reading a lot lately about the legislation both in the US and the EU.

The general consensus is that obviously it's going to be very bad news to the industry. But what does this look like for us vapers?

I'm trying to get a grasp on the actual ramifications:

• You will not be able to buy the devices you use now! 2ml tank capacity limit means a huge swathe of the most popular products will be unavailable. (The wording of TPD Article 20 is ambiguous in respect of this limit, but the first Member State to implement has decided on an outright ban on tanks over 2ml capacity.).
• You will have less choice of e-liquids! ! Harsh regulations around fluid and emissions testing mean that small and artisanal e-liquid manufacturers will be unable to compete, or in many cases even stay in business. Larger manufacturers will be forced to restrict the choices in their fluid ranges.
• You will have less choice of nicotine strength! The 20 mg/ml nicotine strength limit means that those most at risk from combustible cigarettes (heavy smokers) are least likely to be able to satisfy nicotine craving with e-cigarettes.
• All e-cigarettes will start to look the same! Ensuring “leak free refilling” (to be supported by a proposed Pan-European standard filling mechanism) also outlaws the vast majority of refillable and all rebuildable products, to be replaced by e-cigarettes with the same generic and standardised filling mechanism.

So, if this comes into force, will there be a mad rush to snap up all existing products on the market and essentially have enough spare mods/tanks and juice for a good period of time.

What's your plan if the aforementioned comes into force? Is it just game over or will the industry react accordingly - developing new products for things like the new "leak free refilling" mechanism?

I've always been lost about the real future of vaping as everything I read people just say "it's the end" but is it..?

The more vapers that finally get around to reading up and forming conclusions the better! The awareness and absorbtion of the TPD consequences seems to me to be pretty low.
Nobody yet knows what the actual ramifications for vapers in the UK will be. We're all guessing. There might well be a major difference between the EU law, the implementation of that law and the prosecution of that law.

You will not be able to buy the devices you use now!
Perhaps not openly and not legally. Big difference though in what the resourceful vaper will be able to obtain.

You will have less choice of e-liquids!
Probably. This was always going to happen though; vaping consumers would benefit from appropriate regulation, all emerging industries go through periods of rapid growth, decline and consolidation. Why should vaping be any different? It's regrettable that vaping will lose some of its cottage industry charm but that's life and it's far from a fatal blow. We've practically killed the UK high street because we want supermarkets. There are also DIYers who have no need for eliquid manufacturers, they happily made their choice already. Less choice yes, but probably still enough choice.

You will have less choice of nicotine strength!
As we know, most vapers reduce very quickly from starting out at 18-24mg/ml. Today's gear is far more efficient at nicotine delivery so a cap at 20mg/ml is no biggie. In terms of buying premade e-liquid, this really is not an issue. If it is also applied to the provision of nicotine concentrate, which we are currently and typically getting hold of at 54 and 72mg/ml strength, then that is a concern. However, that is a big IF for me. Forward planning and a watchful eye on how this turns out, remember law is one thing, implementation is another.

All e-cigarettes will start to look the same!
The legislation will stifle innovation, that's for sure. However I don't think it will kill off innovation altogether and I don't think it means they will all look the same. It's still very early days for vaping, the technologies are very new.

A final point to make is that it's very rare for legislation to go unchanged. Article 20 of the TPD is highly likely to find a continuous stream of amendments - it's badly drawn up as it is, loop holes will be challenged, closed, found anew, clarifications and changes will have to be made as technology changes, new research findings emerge, consumers demand it and legislators are forced to reconsider.

My plan? Be watchful, don't over react, keep a sensible stash of nicotine in the freezer and carry on vaping.

 

[2minvapereviews]

Very nice response @scrumpox

 

[Mawsley]

All e-cigarettes will start to look the same!

That's racist.

 

[andipandi]

A final point to make is that it's very rare for legislation to go unchanged. Article 20 of the TPD is highly likely to find a continuous stream of amendments - it's badly drawn up as it is, loop holes will be challenged, closed, found anew, clarifications and changes will have to be made as technology changes, new research findings emerge, consumers demand it and legislators are forced to reconsider.

I don't agree with that at all, I think a review is due after something like at least 5 years, probably longer. Art 20 was drawn up badly for many reasons and it was certainly done on purpose. To stifle competition, to bankrupt and force the vast majority of vendors out of business, to prevent the use of nicotine / vaping via 100% of the electronic vaping devices currently available, to stifle innovation, to discourage quitting tobacco or even attempting to quit by making vaping most likely more expensive (than smoking) and the licensed products pathetically useless.

Why would the EU change and amend policy and laws that they obviously think are going to deliver the de facto ban they so badly want?

 

[scrumpox]

I don't agree with that at all, I think a review is due after something like at least 5 years, probably longer. Art 20 was drawn up badly for many reasons and it was certainly done on purpose. To stifle competition, to bankrupt and force the vast majority of vendors out of business, to prevent the use of nicotine / vaping via 100% of the electronic vaping devices currently available, to stifle innovation, to discourage quitting tobacco or even attempting to quit by making vaping most likely more expensive (than smoking) and the licensed products pathetically useless.

Why would the EU change and amend policy and laws that they obviously think are going to deliver the de facto ban they so badly want?

I wouldn't disagree that the heavy hand of the pharmaceutical lobby is writ large on the directive, I think that's obvious. I can't find a number for directive amendments and won't waste time doing so ... besides, any ambiguity will be decided by EU judges and their interpretation of the schematic and teleological.* Perhaps they'll agree with you that this is a de facto ban.

There are still two legal challenges, if they are thrown out I think the judges will be kept busy with more. I'm quite looking forward to a bit of civil disobedience and for the majority of vapers to finally wake up.


* that was from Lord Denning in a Slaughter & May report I read

 

[steph1982]

What annoys me is things like monster ect are actually killing people and yet nothing is done with that product yet there has been )as far as I can find ) 0 vape related deaths

 

[scrumpox]

What annoys me is things like monster ect are actually killing people and yet nothing is done with that product yet there has been )as far as I can find ) 0 vape related deaths

So you think this should be about public health and not money? That would be nice, wouldn't it?

 

[Mr Numpty]

What is this monster ect that is killing people?