Clive Bates again lol

[steffijade]

If we as vapers say we don't give a crap, how can we expect anyone else to get involved and support us?

I've seen what Mr Bates has had to say about vaping and a lot of his input is very welcome but I can't help but remember that he was at the helm of ASH when the strategy of demonisation of smokers and denormalisation of smoking developed as a mainstream policy of the antz.

For this reason alone I don't entirely trust his motives, but his interaction regarding the TPD may well have swayed some votes and forced the revisions.

Whilst it can be a bit tiresome to keep hearing the same old bullcrap from the antz, if we don't make the effort to rebut that bullcrap the antz will get away with imposing whatever restrictions they see fit to ensure the continuance of their gravy train... including extending a 20mg strength and a ml limitation to nic base as well as premixed liquids.

If that happens, it'll piss on the chips of a lot of current vapers whether they feel motivated to engage in the political circus or not and it'll be too late to start getting bolshy after the fact.

Personally, I would say get bolshy now while there's still time... and keep a good few litres of higher nic base in stock in the freezer.

 

[Colonelboom]

Sorry for this @Gonloopy, but you did 'open a door' with the 'I'm alright jack' so I feel obliged to go through it. I can think of nothing more 'I'm alright Jack' than a bunch of ( now, thankfully, nothing but history) wannabee vaping crusaders making a big banner waving noise about 'freedom to vape' (remember the silly vaping in pubs malarkey?) that achieved nothing other than to bring vaping to the attention of the negative media, promote 'passive vaping' issues, and bring other, unwanted, attention to a pastime that should have been quite content with the small victories that vaping had, already provided.

To provide the ammunition and to also load the guns of the enemy, was, imo, the most selfish act in the history of vaping.

Freedom to vape and putting pressure on certain pub chains has ended up encouraging other large pub chains to look at their vaping policies and allow it. Negative media has turned into positive media in quite a lot of circles, conversation about passive vaping has brought to the attention of those who didn't understand a few facts about quite the opposite.

The simple truth is that without high profile advocates who have the ear of the media and respect of their peers you would be kissing vaping goodbye. Whether you personally see the value in that is for you to work out but to claim that nothing has been achieved is short sighted.

 

[cheersm8]

The life span of 'negative media' lasts only as long as 'the readers' are interested. Press is fickle, and soon moves on to 'the next big scare'. The media regard themselves as a god-like body, and have never, or ever will be, influenced by science, protest, or legislation, there only influence is via their readers/viewers reactions, and upon how long they keep the kettle boiling.
Whilst 'the media' and government/legislative bodies may appear as bedfellows with equal influence upon the future, the reality is that both are working with completely, and opposite, agendas.

 

[Diche]

The life span of 'negative media' lasts only as long as 'the readers' are interested. Press is fickle, and soon moves on to 'the next big scare'. The media regard themselves as a god-like body, and have never, or ever will be, influenced by science, protest, or legislation, there only influence is via their readers/viewers reactions, and upon how long they keep the kettle boiling.
Whilst 'the media' and government/legislative bodies may appear as bedfellows with equal influence upon the future, the reality is that both are working with completely, and opposite, agendas.

Those readers may have a short attention span for any given subject, but the information they absorb in that time stays with them throughout their lives. This means we have a very short window to change their mind about vaping before their feelings and attitudes to the subject are fixed for the foreseeable future.