Flavour related questions answered

[TheFlavourist]

Good morning to all the vapers out there who are interested in the flavours used in e-liquids and who would like to know more about this complex subject.
I'm a flavourist / flavour chemist with decades of experience in flavour creation from first principles , ie: from discrete molecules / aroma chemicals, extracts and essential oils.
I've been creating flavours for e-liquids for over four years now and no doubt many of you will have bought, vaped and enjoyed juices which contain flavours I've created.
I'd like to shed some light on and dispel some of the myths surrounding what is perhaps a poorly understood area of the vaping world, and to that end I'm happy to answer (sensible) flavour related questions, but I can't give away commercially senstive information.
I'm not a natural user of social media and I will be dipping in and out of this forum, so please be patient if I take a while to respond.
I may fall flat on my backside and none of you may be interested at all, but there seems to be plenty of chat about flavours so I'm hoping there will be some interest.
Anyway, here I am, who's first?

 

[smplmind]

Hi Welcome! @TheFlavourist.

I don't have any specific questions right now but will keep your post in mind.

 

[KetracelWhite]

Welcome @TheFlavourist

Sounds almost alchemical.

best wishes.

 

[TheFlavourist]

Hi Welcome! @TheFlavourist.

I don't have any specific questions right now but will keep your post in mind.

Thanks for your reply, you know where I am...........

 

[TheFlavourist]

Welcome @TheFlavourist

Sounds almost alchemical.

best wishes.

In a funny way it is almost alchemical. Taking 20,30,40 ingredients and mixing the right materials at the right levels to make PG/ VG taste like....well anything, pretty much.
In some ways it's as difficult as turning base metal into gold, and I often end up with the equivalent of a black lump stuck in the bottom of my crucible.

Thanks for your best wishes.

 

[Mr Numpty]

Oh, TheFlavourist. You beautiful, beautiful person. Thank you.

 

[TheFlavourist]

Oh, TheFlavourist. You beautiful, beautiful person. Thank you.

Why, thank you kind sir. Can I assume that you'll be asking a question soon?

 

[zouzounaki]

Hi @TheFlavourist , I’ve been trying by to create a tzatziki liquid. I have cucumber and yoghurt from FA. Obviously these are the base.

But I need a dill flavour and something to give it a salty taste. I’m not planning to put garlic in it at the minute.

I can’t find a dill concentrate. I’ve tried a small amount of anise and spearmint which is ok, but not perfect (I was thinking the relationship between anise/fennel/dill might suggest anise could help at a very small amount).

I was also advised by a member here to add saline, but I’n not convinced this will make it taste salty.

There is a tzatziki concentrate available from atmos labs which I haven’t tried but I suspect will be cucumber and yoghurt. I want to come up with something myself.

Any advice?

 

[Mr Numpty]

Why, thank you kind sir. Can I assume that you'll be asking a question soon?

I have so many questions I don't know where to start.

 

[TheFlavourist]

Hi Zouzounaki.

One of the main flavour identifying components of Dill is a molecule called d-Carvone (or R-(-) Carvone) , your use of spearmint was along the right lines but the flavour identifying component of Spearmint is l-Carvone ( or S-(-) Carvone) . These two molecules are optical isomers of each other, 3 dimensional mirror images if you like and they taste quite different from one another.
d-Carvone and l-Carvone are often used to demonstrate how isomerism determines odour so thanks for your question as it's really relevent to flavour chemistry.

So, you need a source of d-Carvone and apart from Dill the best option is Caraway.
You can buy samples of Dill Oil and Caraway Oil online if you do a search.
Just be aware though that the problem with using essential oils like this is that they contain terpenes, which are not particularly soluble in PG and less so in VG.

I personally don't like vaping terpenes.....you may not want to either.


You could make a "wash" of these in PG, to remove the terpenes.
Once you've got hold of a sample of one of these oils, providing you are happy to give it a go, let me know and if you want , I can talk you through it. It should work............you need a few bits and bobs but it's quite straight forward.

As for salty, that's a tough one. Good old Sodium Chloride will dissolve in PG but I'm not sure if it'll come through on the vape and may well have a go at your coil.
Lo Salt products may work better, they contain Pottasium Chloride which has a more immediate "hit".

Whatever you try, just be aware of what you're vaping, your health is more important than creating a good juice.

Good luck