Heated discussion

[ossettbob]

I did stop smoking and vent into vaping for health reasons. I had heart attack last Christmas at 69 yrs old. Within a month, my morning cough had stopped and people said I looked lots better. All the professionals I saw since then have said i`m lots better vaping. That`s good enough for me.

 

[Dr Manhattan]

I got sick of explaining myself to people who rely on tabloids for facts so if they starting giving it all that i usually respond with 'cool', 'ok', 'you're an idiot' or 'fuck off' depending on my mood and who it is talking bollox


Sent from my iPhone using Planet of the Vapes

 

[Gonloopy]

@<a href="http://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/forums/members/ned.html" target="_blank">ned</a> Here you go. This is a good starting point to begin to get your head around it all
Arguing about e-cigarettes ? a Q&A « The counterfactual


[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&amp;v=SVS0_BGHHjM[/video]

 

[Ment]

ok i guess i was wrong on that. the thing is the testing that has been done cant imo have tested for the long term effects of breathing in vapour,being as nobody has been vaping for very long?
also the way i see it the amount of vapour some people are breathing in now has incressed lots compared to the early days of vaping?
the only four ingredients thing im not sure i understand either. pg vg and nic i get but flavours are where i get confused. are different flavours made using different ingredients? my guess is yes?
diacetyl for instance,when it was being used was it classed as an ingredient?

edited to say just realised you said components not ingredients,my mistake for not reading your reply properly the first time. sorry

I did mean ingredients. I was counting all flavourings as one.

Diacetyl is a by product of dairy fermentation, so it was only ever going to be in creamy / custardy natural food flavourings. The eliquid industry is the only one that can proudly boast "100% artificial ingredients" so we're pretty safe on that score.

The industry is also very quick to act on any new information - the major producers are now regularly testing their products and they were quick to reduce or even eliminate PG in their liquids once the dangers were discovered.

 

[ned]

I did mean ingredients. I was counting all flavourings as one.

Diacetyl is a by product of dairy fermentation, so it was only ever going to be in creamy / custardy natural food flavourings. The eliquid industry is the only one that can proudly boast "100% artificial ingredients" so we're pretty safe on that score.

The industry is also very quick to act on any new information - the major producers are now regularly testing their products and they were quick to reduce or even eliminate PG in their liquids once the dangers were discovered.

ok im more stupid than i even realise lol.

so are all flavourings one? or no? cos if no then the only four ingredients thing that we keep reading and hearing about is basically not true.

as for the industry not sure id put a lot of belief in anything an industry tells me.
to many industries have told porkies over the years only to come unstuck further down the line,tobacco,banks,pharma ect ect ect

i hope my posts dont come across as rude or argumentative,they are not ment to be either.

 

[Gonloopy]

You're right ned, flavouring is more than one ingredient, so 4 is basically untrue.

The thing with Diacetyl is that it shouldn't be in eliquids, its most commonly found in buttery/creamy type liquids. it's a risk that is known and is avoidable, as it potentially can lead to 'popcorn lung'.

However , the reason why vaping is so much safer than smoking is that there is no combustion. It is at combustion point that the vast majority of toxins are released

Things are very different today than when smoking was found to be bad for us in the 1950s. We have huge amounts of information about what chemicals cause cancer, and importantly the concentration.

Nothing, repeat nothing has been found yet that is sufficient to think vaping will cause cancer. We can never say never but Professors with 20 years experience in tobacco harm reduction estimate that it's about 95% less risky than smoking.

 

[Ment]

You're right @ned, flavouring is more than one ingredient, so 4 is basically untrue.

Of course I meant any one eliquid contains only 4. There are hundreds of different flavourings, but most are artificial flavours and are chemically very similar.

 

[ned]

You're right ned, flavouring is more than one ingredient, so 4 is basically untrue.

The thing with Diacetyl is that it shouldn't be in eliquids, its most commonly found in buttery/creamy type liquids. it's a risk that is known and is avoidable, as it potentially can lead to 'popcorn lung'.

However , the reason why vaping is so much safer than smoking is that there is no combustion. It is at combustion point that the vast majority of toxins are released

Things are very different today than when smoking was found to be bad for us in the 1950s. We have huge amounts of information about what chemicals cause cancer, and importantly the concentration.

Nothing, repeat nothing has been found yet that is sufficient to think vaping will cause cancer. We can never say never but Professors with 20 years experience in tobacco harm reduction estimate that it's about 95% less risky than smoking.

thanks for explaining all this.

i guess the point im trying to make is i dont see how anyone could have done any proper studies of what breathing in some of the chemicals in some of the flavours could do to us over time. because we havent been vaping for that long, and as i understand it most of the flavourings used were ment to be eaten not breathed in.

i mean we can eat flour in various forms but breath the stuff in and well its not good news.

im not trying to knock vaping even though i can see it might seem like that. im just trying to understand it better.

 

[Gonloopy]

thanks for explaining all this.

i guess the point im trying to make is i dont see how anyone could have done any proper studies of what breathing in some of the chemicals in some of the flavours could do to us over time. because we havent been vaping for that long, and as i understand it most of the flavourings used were ment to be eaten not breathed in.

i mean we can eat flour in various forms but breath the stuff in and well its not good news.

im not trying to knock vaping even though i can see it might seem like that. im just trying to understand it better.

No, we won't know fully for 20 years . What we can do is apply science and make an educated judgement.

Here is a systematic review of trials on ecigs done to date.BMC Public Health | Full text | Peering through the mist: systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks Also look up Farsalinos who has done numerous research trials on the subject. Have a read through/watch some of the stuff I've previously posted and you'll begin to understand where I'm coming from

 

[ned]

No, we won't know fully for 20 years . What we can do is apply science and make an educated judgement.

Here is a systematic review of trials on ecigs done to date.BMC Public Health | Full text | Peering through the mist: systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks Also look up Farsalinos who has done numerous research trials on the subject. Have a read through/watch some of the stuff I've previously posted and you'll begin to understand where I'm coming from

will do. tar