House of Lords & TPD

[ZT]

Tobacco Harm Reduction legislation has been driven across the planet by the WHO (World Health Organisation), should we also leave the WHO and the UN?

The EU referendum really has no relevance to TPD/TRPR or the House of Lords motion. In fact, the Lords have been very careful not to mix up the two.

Well ... It has been the key point that has driven me too want to leave the EU - not in and of itself, voting on one issue would be mental.

however it has made me look more into the EU and how it works (or more often correctly - doesn't), the closed door policy making, big company lobbying etc (in far more than just the vape industry) and most inexcusably for me the total lack of accountability on policies and legislation made.

what it made me realise is, if they can succumb to lobbying from Big companies in one industry .. they can and in fact most likely have succumbed to it in other industries.

that coupled wth no reasonable way to actually lobby for change from a residents perspective - and a total dislike of being ruled by an elite has made me camp in leave.

so while that one issue was the initial sticking point for me .. its led me to many many other reasons I want out.


Bit of a shit choice really ... we either stay with our corrupt government (with some little accountability and the option of chucking them out every five years) or stay with an even more corrupt and much worse government with absolutely jack all accountability and no options to change who's in power.

 

[Simon G]

Well ... It has been the key point that has driven me too want to leave the EU - not in and of itself, voting on one issue would be mental.

however it has made me look more into the EU and how it works (or more often correctly - doesn't), the closed door policy making, big company lobbying etc (in far more than just the vape industry) and most inexcusably for me the total lack of accountability on policies and legislation made.

what it made me realise is, if they can succumb to lobbying from Big companies in one industry .. they can and in fact most likely have succumbed to it in other industries.

that coupled wth no reasonable way to actually lobby for change from a residents perspective - and a total dislike of being ruled by an elite has made me camp in leave.

so while that one issue was the initial sticking point for me .. its led me to many many other reasons I want out.


Bit of a shit choice really ... we either stay with our corrupt government (with some little accountability and the option of chucking them out every five years) or stay with an even more corrupt and much worse government with absolutely jack all accountability and no options to change who's in power.

The start of it for me on a personal level was the EU Motorcycle emission regulations, they killed the PX200E off in 2002 with Euro2 regs, then the PX125 in 2008 with Euro3 regs, managed to get the PX125 back in 2010 with a heavily restricted exhaust, cat and double air filter, which strangled the already gutless standard engine.... next year when the Euro7? (I think) emmision regulations come in, it will be the final death of real Vespa 2-stroke scooters, 70 years in production this year, an Icon of design and Italian engineering and now gone forever. ..... so a little fucking 2-stroke oil being burnt in the £7 of petrol I use to get to work and back each week makes more pollution than a car does it? .. or a fucking great industrial plant spewing christ knows what into the atmosphere? fuck off EU... go fuck yourself, like vaping it's an easy target because you don't want to upset the big boys.

 

[Simon G]

..... not to mention the other idiotic regulations that we managed to stop ... like not being able to change the ANYTHING on a motorcycle that wasn't on it when it was new and you can only repalce like for like.

That was stopped because they eventually saw the idiocy of saying If it came with Pirelli sports tyres, it must continue to have pirelli sports tyres for it's whole life and if you change them your insurance is invalid and you are breaking the law .

Bunch of fucking muppets, it took over a year for them to see that it wasn't a good idea.... how hard is it to see that if you ride all year and in all weathers you would rather put more winter orientated/wet specific tyres on for 5 months of the year or that people may feel safer/more confident on a Dunlop tyre and want to change them anyway. It's just petty meddling in people's lives trying to control what we can buy and do. .. they think they know best but they know shit and they've proved it over and over to me.

 

[Harry]

Bit of a shit choice really ... we either stay with our corrupt government (with some little accountability and the option of chucking them out every five years) or stay with an even more corrupt and much worse government with absolutely jack all accountability and no options to change who's in power.

Nailed it.

 

[vapegrl]

erm.... WUT

 

[alun_severn]

Thanks for this suggestion (to the OP). I wrote as suggested.

Heidi Alexander wrote back quite quickly. She said:

Firstly, I share your views about the benefits of vaping over smoking and I believe that recent research shows that some of the initial concerns about e-cigarettes were overstated. Vaping can be a safe and effective way to give up smoking and I believe the Government should be doing more to promote e-cigarettes as a potentially useful aid to help people quit smoking.

I note that Lord Callanan has now withdrawn his “fatal motion” to annul the TPD regulations. A fatal motion would have stopped the regulations entirely, removing not just the changes to e-cigarettes but all the positive changes brought in by these regulations to help smokers quit and make smoking tobacco less attractive to younger people. Lord Callanan has instead tabled a “regret motion”, which highlights his concern that the regulations were drafted before evidence was accumulated that vaping can help people to stop smoking.

The Labour Party has tabled its own regret motion, a copy of which can be viewed below [...]:

†Lord Hunt of Kings Heath to move that, in the light of the concerns about the impact of the Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016 on the use of electronic cigarettes, this House regrets that there is not a monitoring mechanism in place to measure whether the Regulations will have a negative impact on the number of smokers using electronic cigarettes to give up smoking; that the Regulations are not to be accompanied by a public information campaign to reassure smokers that electronic cigarettes are less harmful than normal smoking; that smoking cessation services are being cut back at the same time as the Regulations are being introduced; and that the Regulations are due for implementation before the Government has published their tobacco strategy (SI 2015/507).​

I don't necessarily understand the full implications of what she explains -- the difference between motions that are 'fatal' or 'regretful', for instance -- but I thought some might be interested in the feedback.

 

[Rob]

Even the very mention of her name at the moment will elicit some pretty scathing comments I should imagine. Such a shame that Lord Callanan had to change track, but....... there are motions still to be tabled, so all is not yet lost. As I said yesterday when the news first started coming through about this, "Yes, we are holed below the waterline, yes, we are taking in water, but we are still afloat and we happen to have pumps, might be a good time to deploy them!!"

 

[justthisguyyouknow]

A fatal motion would have stopped the regulations entirely, removing not just the changes to e-cigarettes but all the positive changes brought in by these regulations to help smokers quit and make smoking tobacco less attractive to younger people.

Still trying to get my head around how forcing people to buy larger quantities of tobacco products will help them quit. Using that as an argument to go from fatal to regret is ridiculous on a number of counts.

I mean it's literally the sitcom trope of a father forcing his son to smoke the entire pack upon discovery of it.

 

[mannikon]

This is being tweeted at the moment, a letter from Lord Callanan explaining his change of motion.