New York bans flavours

[Chris K]

I agree with everything you're saying Stu, apart from the fact I genuinely don't think it'll translate to the UK.
I think we're too pro Vaping with realistic, reliable studies to back it. Sure if you do business stateside it may have a knock on effect in the long term, but over here I firmly belive we are mostly OK.

I'm optimistic we should be right over here. NHS have thrown their support behind vaping so be very hard for a government to say they know better than health professionals. Stranger things have happened though....

Only issue is the press over here (Well the usual press suspects) have jumped on this story like a dog on heat. Had more questions from customers regarding testing, ingredients etc in the past 2 weeks than in the past 2 years! Worry is it will put people off vaping and keep them smoking.

 

[Fuctifino]

I know I bang on about it but don't underestimate the billions various states are set to lose if people stop smoking..

https://psmag.com/.amp/news/trapped-tobacco-debt-trap-niagara-county-new-york-securitization-93153

already explained in another thread in UK.....

avg smoker 20 a day = £10 x 365 = £3,650
of which £2,500 is duty/VAT

aprox 6m smokers left in UK, on those figures = £15bn

figures obtained from an old duty/tax calculator but yeah about right I think today.....

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...tor-tax-pay-beer-wine-cigarettes-spirits.html

now obviously duty free, dodgy imported fags, roll ups this figure is wound back a bit
but highlights the revenue generated from smokers (in UK)

and as said NY is the most expensive state in US to buy fags

 

[wraith]

already explained in another thread in UK.....

avg smoker 20 a day = £10 x 365 = £3,650
of which £2,500 is duty/VAT

aprox 6m smokers left in UK, on those figures = £15bn

now obviously duty free, dodgy imported fags, roll ups this figure is wound back a bit
but highlights the revenue generated from smokers (in UK)

and as said NY is the most expensive state in US to buy fags

We do pay 20% VAT on vape kit, batteries and juices, though, which softens the blow to the treasury a bit (expect that to go up when the vaper:smoker ratio gets high enough to make it worth imposing a sin tax).

 

[Fuctifino]

We do pay 20% VAT on vape kit, batteries and juices, though, which softens the blow to the treasury a bit (expect that to go up when the vaper:smoker ratio gets high enough to make it worth imposing a sin tax).

probably 50% or at least 33% of my hardware comes from China, usually no duty/vat paid
50% possibly from UK but even going nutz at times still way below what I was blowing on fags

juice - diy 98%, aprox £30pa so equates to £25 + 20%/£5 VAT

£5 Vat on juice Vs £2,500pa duty/vat on fags
(plus a modest 20% VAT on half my hardware)

I've had enough for being taken for a mug over the years
& the numpty's in HoC are useless at sorting out present situation
so oil beef hooked if I'm gonna hand over more money for them to piss up the wall

but they will tax us on something else next when the penny drops

 

[Huggett]

We do pay 20% VAT on vape kit, batteries and juices, though, which softens the blow to the treasury a bit (expect that to go up when the vaper:smoker ratio gets high enough to make it worth imposing a sin tax).

Tried to "sin tax" it last year didn't they? A 5% taxation on it, which we all know starts at 5% and snowballs.

It was thrown out

 

[wraith]

Tried to "sin tax" it last year didn't they? A 5% taxation on it, which we all know starts at 5% and snowballs.

It was thrown out

That may work while vaping is seen as the less harmful alternative to smoking but when there are more vapors than smokers it will be considered the more risky alternative to doing neither.

 

[vapesmarter]

Ok

Duty and fags if we go down this route

“Published: 12th Oct 2015

Do taxes on cigarettes bring in enough revenue to cover what smoking costs the government?

We know they bring in about £12 billion in direct tax revenues, although that doesn't count other contributions of the tobacco industry to total tax take (for instance income tax paid by employees).

And the cost side of this equation is even trickier to pin down.

Estimates suggest costs anywhere between £3 billion and £6 billion for NHS treatments in a given year. In the longer term the total cost might be lower, since some of those who die prematurely due to smoking might otherwise have gone on to cost the service even more money due to other health conditions.”

So in short 12 billion is raised 6 billion banked people switch to vaping and live longer someone somewhere is going to have raise that shortfall

No prize for guessing who it will be

 

[vapesmarter]

It comes down to what I said before

I’m in my workshop and Alfie and terry are chatting they cook up a pill it will cure cancer and the common cold

“Imagine says terry no more dripping noses and nasty death”

The flip side and I’m being biased here but who is going to employ or those cancer specialists and charities

The truth is Alfie will be dog napped and poor terry will be a pancake on the car tyre of big Pharma

 

[eyeball kid]

Tbh Stu my viewpoint was possibly from a selfish perspective, but it still stands really. It won't effect me, China won't stop producing any time soon and everything I could ever want, or need, will still be readily available.

Elelments now do concentrates as do Loaded et Al - they legitimately can't ban a flavouring. Make it re brand? Sure. So if folk over here aren't satisfied with the plethora of juice they can get from our more capable (in my opinion) juice manufacturers then buy the flavouring and mix your own. Not buying a mod because they can't get the juice is a weak excuse to not buy a mod.

Then there's Kennedy, Squid, Billet box etc heading up the hardware manufacturers that will cease? Re locate. Or close, whichever. Again there's always China (who produce equally capable devices at a fraction of the cost)

There are always options. Always. And as for Brexit putting us on our arse? (I've intentionally avoided that thread), well, no. If a first world, ancient country can't become more self sufficient and think for itself in 2019 then we may aswell nuke ourselves and give it up as a bad job, belive the hype and sack it all off.

In short, any company can survive, and thrive, if it adapts. Just depends on the flexibility of the proprietor.

[emoji106]

I think the reason why we've seen so many north American companies bring out concentrates and open warehouses here and other countries was that they've been fearing just this situation.
I've been chatting a lot with America's vapers over the last year and they have all been stockpiling like mad.
As you say bud. This could be an opportunity for the UK vape industry if approached correctly.
I do understand stu though. It's going to be a slow period for mod /tank, rda maker's outside the states while Americans test the import waters.
Hopefully the big boy's flavours will build some trust.

 

[Fuctifino]

Ok

Duty and fags if we go down this route

“Published: 12th Oct 2015

Do taxes on cigarettes bring in enough revenue to cover what smoking costs the government?

We know they bring in about £12 billion in direct tax revenues, although that doesn't count other contributions of the tobacco industry to total tax take (for instance income tax paid by employees).

And the cost side of this equation is even trickier to pin down.

Estimates suggest costs anywhere between £3 billion and £6 billion for NHS treatments in a given year. In the longer term the total cost might be lower, since some of those who die prematurely due to smoking might otherwise have gone on to cost the service even more money due to other health conditions.”

So in short 12 billion is raised 6 billion banked people switch to vaping and live longer someone somewhere is going to have raise that shortfall

No prize for guessing who it will be

which is what I tried to explain to ignorant people who say smokers cost the NHS etc.....
now of course that depends IF the government re-invests that revenue but it does cover the costs

same as these recent deaths in US....
Vaping kills, it is more dangerous than smoking - we don't know the real risks etc....
Oh FFS & all that you brainwashed people

PS - best wishes for your business, I'm sure your innovation as well as your talent will get you through
your craftsmanship is amazing, plus if your innovation & imagination to adapt & diverse etc....

I'm sure you will be able to continue to flourish in these uncertain times

Brits have a real grit & spirit to adapt & survive, it is perhaps one of our greatest assets
that I'm sure you will continue to demonstrate

most of this vaping crap atm is just a storm in a tea cup
I'm sure it will all settle down with a few regulations but hopefully vaping will continue to grow
though its rapid expansion over the years might lessen but still grow at slight slower pace all the same