"No!" to McAvan's Hell

[HAZZA1962]

Because she's a Dozy Ugly Lemon Sucking Vape Hating Ignorant Itinerant Bint!!!

 

[steffijade]

Ah but it hasn't passed yet, it's not Law until both the Council and EuroParl complete their readings, EuroParl reading is in Early 2014, If we can influence enough MEP's to say No, then the whole thing has to start again or they drop the bit thats causing the problem and pass the rest...

The cynical part of me (which seems to be from somewhere just above the soles of my feet to just under the top of my scalp) wonders if this is even possible.

Unless we can persuade 'them' that vaping should be in a completely separate category from smoking then I can't see how any amount of lobbying can make a lot of difference. The anti smoking lobby have entrenched themselves into such a strong position of presumed moral authority that they can get away with virtually anything, as long as they can claim that it will help to prevent smoking uptake/reduce smoking prevalence.

That's why there's been such a kerfuffle over the TPD and why MEPs have been persuaded to concede a lot of things in relation to vaping.. just in order to allow proposed changes to tobacco cigarette packaging and the limiting/banning of certain types of cigarette to be pushed through.

I'm of the opinion that if vaping had been placed into a separate category, that MEPs would have felt in more of a position to refuse to compromise on it.

The likes of McCavan will ALWAYS be able to try and justify their actions and get away with using emotional blackmail and supposedly moral/ethical arguments, as long as they are seen to be attacking smoking prevalence.

If we hope to make any progress in the long term, then I reckon we need to persuade 'them' that vaping is different and shouldn't be lumped in together with tobacco smoking.

This can only be done, however, if those MEPs are not in the pockets of big pharma/big tobacco/big government and sadly, I think far too many of them appear to be at least in the pocket of big government, in that they are unwilling to challenge the 'party line' in order to do the right thing... they'd rather keep shtum and preserve their prospects for personal career advancement.

If there is going to be a focus for further campaigning, I think it should be directed at getting vaping categorised separately from smoking so that justifications such as 'we had to accept compromise otherwise the reforms to tobacco cigarettes would not have gone through' can no longer be used as blackmail to force through unnecessary regulation of vaping.

 

[anthonyb]

And once again it all boils down to one thing. MONEY.

 

[Chegs]

I think the best chance we would have is if we could somehow change the name of our devices from "e-cigarette" as then we have more chance of getting the devices we are currently using into a different category to tobacco products.If the public can be persuaded that our devices AREN'T McCavans devils devices of sin,then we could possibly persuade the EU Committee to take them out of the TPD as we'd have more weight behind us from those that presently see them as a smoking device.


I mistakenly presumed that the VIP advert would help us in our cause,until I watched the House of Lords debate the other night,& this advert was brought up as ammunition by the anti-brigade.I've noticed(courtesy of KMS)that there seems to be a media swelling of stories condemning the EU decision reresent devices.I'm considering sending emails to every media source that runs an article on the EU fuck-up,explaining how these devices have cured my evil smoking habit in one go,and if everyone of the POTV membership followed suit,then we might just find an "advert" through a National media outlet for just how successful these devices are at curing our nasty evil cancer-causing habit.

I was busy winding coils lastnight/early morning when I thought I heard on the radio news that tobacco sales have dropped 8%,though I wasn't concentrating on the voice so I might be imagining it.If it was true,then it looks like e-cig usage is possibly the cause,and that might explain why the government are going all out to get these devices into TPD because then they can recoup lost taxation revenue from tobacco sales drops,from e-liquid.As 8% off tobacco sales will be a drop in income for the government,& Cameron/Clegg need their cash-cows paying so they can reduce the national debt(allegedly)

 

[whipitup]

Ah but it hasn't passed yet, it's not Law until both the Council and EuroParl complete their readings, EuroParl reading is in Early 2014, If we can influence enough MEP's to say No, then the whole thing has to start again or they drop the bit thats causing the problem and pass the rest...

To clarify: (cos it's really fucking with my head now) The MEP's need to vote on this right?, and if thy vote the same way as last time (Oct 8th), the whole TPD is fucked?

 

[whipitup]

The more I learn about all this the more I think that the limit of flavours is the secret assassin in all this. I can live with sub 20mg/ml juice, 2ml tanks, and the restrictions on where you can use devices, but if I am limited to cigarette flavours then that is gonna be a problem for me (of course I can see ways around this). Why can't they think intelligently and restrict the advertising for the 'bubblegum' flavours, rather than just outright ban them.

No, the point is we should not be limited to ANYTHING.....this is a safe and beneficial tech FFS......they shouldn't even be involved!

 

[whipitup]

The cynical part of me (which seems to be from somewhere just above the soles of my feet to just under the top of my scalp) wonders if this is even possible.

Unless we can persuade 'them' that vaping should be in a completely separate category from smoking then I can't see how any amount of lobbying can make a lot of difference. The anti smoking lobby have entrenched themselves into such a strong position of presumed moral authority that they can get away with virtually anything, as long as they can claim that it will help to prevent smoking uptake/reduce smoking prevalence.

That's why there's been such a kerfuffle over the TPD and why MEPs have been persuaded to concede a lot of things in relation to vaping.. just in order to allow proposed changes to tobacco cigarette packaging and the limiting/banning of certain types of cigarette to be pushed through.

I'm of the opinion that if vaping had been placed into a separate category, that MEPs would have felt in more of a position to refuse to compromise on it.

The likes of McCavan will ALWAYS be able to try and justify their actions and get away with using emotional blackmail and supposedly moral/ethical arguments, as long as they are seen to be attacking smoking prevalence.

If we hope to make any progress in the long term, then I reckon we need to persuade 'them' that vaping is different and shouldn't be lumped in together with tobacco smoking.

This can only be done, however, if those MEPs are not in the pockets of big pharma/big tobacco/big government and sadly, I think far too many of them appear to be at least in the pocket of big government, in that they are unwilling to challenge the 'party line' in order to do the right thing... they'd rather keep shtum and preserve their prospects for personal career advancement.

If there is going to be a focus for further campaigning, I think it should be directed at getting vaping categorised separately from smoking so that justifications such as 'we had to accept compromise otherwise the reforms to tobacco cigarettes would not have gone through' can no longer be used as blackmail to force through unnecessary regulation of vaping.

So, Art18 out of the TPD?

 

[Diablo]

So, in cigarettes they're getting rid of the smaller ten packs (as they appeal to kids) and keeping the large 20 packs, but in ecigs they are getting rid of the large tanks and keeping the small ones? Logical somewhere I suppose.

Lots of those little fluid containers going to be around next year I feel.

i feel like I should have a dig at linda and her cronies here, but the fact is, I can't be arsed. lets all wish her a miserable Christmas knowing that unlike the other stuff she sticks her nose in to look good that usually gives her a nice photoshoot, the ecig subject and her involvement has gotten her disliked by an ever growing group of unhappy voters who see her as an evil death dealing tobacco whoremonger. See, I didn't have a dig.

 

[Gonloopy]

Well, I was a bit concerned at work yesterday. A summary of the agreement was circulated round. With these 2 lines at the bottom

"Decisions on flavourings will be made at the national level as will the possibility to regulate products such as e-cigarettes via pharmaceutical legislation."

if this is correct, I think we are still going to have a battle on our hands at national level too, regardless of what happens in the EU.

 

[steffijade]

So, Art18 out of the TPD?

Removal of any reference to vaping from the TPD.

If they want vaping to be regulated then it should be assessed in a separate directive and without constant linking to tobacco cigarettes.

The two are different and the constant links to combusted tobacco are what is allowing 'them' to get away with unnecessary regulation.