On the phone to PayPal - misinformation it seems

[Doofry]

I struggle to see why they would want to stop sales in the first place, we pay money,vendor gets paid, paypal take percentage.
Does it really matter in the fact that i choose to spend money on my hobby and lifestyle, it is me buying from you, the only middleman that sees the transaction is paypal, there isn't any advertising or blatant massive banner waving!?
It would be like my bank denying me the ability to withdraw money because i might been doing something that resembles smoking in the comfort of my own home.

 

[Colonelboom]

Doofry, apparently it is all about risk (b#llshit) and ecigs are seen as risky business for chargebacks or disputes. I would like to see some factual justification for this in writing though.

It is probably because for every ecig or PV sold a toddler ingests liquid and dies, if a toddler does not die then the house is set ablaze by a battery, failing that then the tobacco content of the ecig kills a user directly - see, risky business.

 

[Phantom Diablo]

of course we havent touched on another issue that could affect both vendors and buyers alike.. bloody royal mail. already sending liquids through post is actually deemed as against regs ( every time ive sent some eliquids on here through post office they have asked what the contents are and if they contain liquids.

looking at royal mail prohibited list in includes the following which could affect us

Batteries

Batteries that are classed as dangerous goods by the latest edition of the International Civil Aviation Organization’s (ICAO) Technical Instructions are prohibited. This includes wet spillable lead acid/lead alkaline batteries (such as car batteries), used alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH), nickel cadmium (NiCd), zinc-air batteries, and damaged batteries of any type. Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries when not sent with, or contained in/connected to an electronic device, are prohibited. Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries are allowed when sent with or contained in/connected to an electronic device, but are subject to packaging, volume and quantity restrictions. Please seewww.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods. For more information on lithium batteries please see the IATA Lithium Battery Guidance Document . Sealed lead acid batteries are allowed in the UK, but are also subject to packaging, volume, quantity and labelling restrictions. Please seewww.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods Alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH) and nickel cadmium (NiCd) batteries may only be sent when new and in their original packaging. Please see www.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods Poisonous, toxic liquids, solids or gases Including substances that are liable to cause death or injury if swallowed or inhaled or by skin contact, such as arsenic, beryllium, cyanide, fluorine, rat poison <tbody> </tbody>

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how long before royal mail add ecigarettes and eliquids specifically to that list i wonder.

with PP you can get around it by renaming products as they dont physically handle the packages so have no way of checking, but RM can do random checks and if prohibited items are found not only does the buyer lose the package the vendor could then be at risk of a hefty fine or worse.

that is for me a bigger worry than paypal where we have alternatives. other than highly expensive courier companies there isnt much room for manouvre if rm throw a spanner in the works

 

[gords1001]

Exactly. Batteries should be in the device thst uses them......I cant tell you how stupid that idea is, its been getting our backs up in torch workd for a while.

 

[Colonelboom]

I know what you mean, let's not send batteries in plastic cases nice and safe, instead pop them in that mod where they could accidentally fire and self destruct - odd logic.

With ecigs, as egos have electronics built in they already class as a device and as such are fine, other batteries I guess will have to find a workaround such as creative a box that can be classed as device (power tester function etc) but do it for peanuts. In any case some of their restrictions for everyday items are bonkers

 

[madpiano]

Crikey. It sounds scary! The way this is going, the EU won't have to ban anything. We will no longer be able to order things anywhere.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Planet of the Vapes mobile app

 

[gords1001]

How about this for consideration.

You ship the batteries in a torch, the threads are un anodised so it can't be locked out and the driver has no low voltage protection.

Those cells can be discharged to a point where due to heat generated by the torch, they go into thermal run away - potential vent with flames situation.

Thats an approved method of shipping.


Now. Same cells, same torch, but you tape the cells to cut the circuit.

That's not allowed because the device is not functional so cannot be tested.....tested by who exactly? Some numpty on a desk? What do they know? Its rediculous but there it is. Rules in motion.

 

[Phantom Diablo]

well we have already seen the huge debarcle concerning batteries ordered from china with all mail through singapore and i think HK post being returned. but the bigger issue is will royal mail jump on the ecig bandwagon in the negative.
its a grey area as they dont seem to actually list cigarettes but do list toxic chemicals which if they want to pe picky could include any and ALL eliquids.
certainly nicotine base in current standings shouldnt be sent through post as it is ( im guessing alot of couriers have similar rules) but if RM do decide to take the paypal road the shit will well and truely hit the fan . Vendors wont want to take risk for fear of getting parcels checked and risking whatever punishment RM will dish out and customers wont want to pay due to risk of non delivery and no way to claim back because the product isnt on some approved payment list.
who needs the EU to screw us when RM and PP can do it

maybe we need to find a scientist who can turn e liquid into a powder form and you just add purified water and shake ( remember powdered lemonade anyone! )

 

[Doofry]

It all makes me laugh... a lot!
CAA for one, they seem to forget that ALL aircraft contain batteries as well, Every member of crew is more than likely in breach of rules as the all tend to carry mobile phones (which are all in breach being mobile comms devices).
Doesn't matter if the batteries are in the devices.
One of our squadrons did an honesty poll and every member of aircrew carried a mobile phone and it was left on.
My major concern in all of this, paypal, aviation etc, is the lack of common sense, it really does beggar belief!

 

[leisureliquids]

Terry, that is excellent stuff. I just looked on the Payment Sense website, their rates are great and they already supply a payment plugin for my cart software so i am off to speak to them about ecig related businesses and make sure they havent got a swift ban on the way too.

cheers, that might actually be a good option for many of us.

I can't recommend them highly enough.