So it's not just VIP

[Gonloopy]

Oh dear. About 74% of ejuice tested were found to have diacetyl in them. Dr farsalinos study

Nic & Tob Res

 

[fay69]

Oh. That's much higher than I anticipated. Bad news :-(

Sent from my GT-S6810P using Planet of the Vapes mobile app

 

[Miss Pepper]

Down to the makers to know what they ate buying and using when mixing, then find alternatives.

 

[twoeyedbob]

Down to the makers to know what they ate buying and using when mixing, then find alternatives.

tbh...what they ate during the process should'nt be getting in the juice anyway....
Even rayon can't cope with carbonara...cup-a-soup's good though(not the crouton one)



;-)

 

[Gonloopy]

Important thing to take comfort from is that it is still 10 to 100 times less than what is in cigarette smoke. But it is a known avoidable risk and shouldn't be in there

 

[StuPot]

Isn't this the results of Dr Farsalinos from a while aga? I believe a lot will of changed since then.

http://gfn.net.co/downloads/2014/posters/122 Farsalinos - DA_AP.pdf

 

[Fubar1977]

It still smacks a little of desperation to find something to hang their argument on to me.

Yes, ideally it should not be there but it is present at vastly lower levels than is present in Tobacco smoke and they have been unable to produce a single case of a vaper suffering from "Popcorn Lung".
We didn`t worry about Diacetyl when we smoked and, personally I`m not losing any sleep over it now.

That said I do use Capella and Flavour Apprentice ingredients, who do state that they are Diacetyl free but that`s not why I chose them.

Vaping is about harm reduction not harm elimination​ so a little perspective would be nice here.

 

[VaperCaper]

These results came out a few months back - though they have finally been published now in a proper journal.

Unless we know exactly what liquids were tested and then which flavour compounds those liquids used it's hard to figure out what flavours out there might contain diacetyl.

Capella are known for their 'NO DIACETYL', though it makes you wonder if they are bring out v2 versions of vanilla custard and French Vanilla presently that also now do not contain Acetyl Propionyl, but used to how many of their other flavours use AP. I'd guess that Capella presently are the most widely used flavour house for e-liquid flavours. The majority of the flavours we use are from Capella or FA.

Also the 74%, as I understand it, refers to either AP or Diacetyl. While diacetyl has been known to be bad for a long time, AP is a relatively new bad kid on the block, so it's entirely possible that a chunk of this 74% contain AP and not Diacetyl.


We plan on taking the good doctors advice and are getting all of the flavours we use GC-MS tested over the autumn so we are 100% certain that nothing we produce contains either Diacetyl or AP. right now we take whats on the MSDS sheets at face value, which is not ideal, and is the point Dr F is making in this study.

Getting all this testing done, is very expensive. If we need to get 100 flavours tested at £100 a test ...

 

[cohibacohiba]

It still smacks a little of desperation to find something to hang their argument on to me.

Yes, ideally it should not be there but it is present at vastly lower levels than is present in Tobacco smoke and they have been unable to produce a single case of a vaper suffering from "Popcorn Lung".
We didn`t worry about Diacetyl when we smoked and, personally I`m not losing any sleep over it now.

That said I do use Capella and Flavour Apprentice ingredients, who do state that they are Diacetyl free but that`s not why I chose them.

Vaping is about harm reduction not harm elimination​ so a little perspective would be nice here.

Agreed.

 

[Colonelboom]

These results came out a few months back - though they have finally been published now in a proper journal.

Unless we know exactly what liquids were tested and then which flavour compounds those liquids used it's hard to figure out what flavours out there might contain diacetyl.

Capella are known for their 'NO DIACETYL', though it makes you wonder if they are bring out v2 versions of vanilla custard and French Vanilla presently that also now do not contain Acetyl Propionyl, but used to how many of their other flavours use AP. I'd guess that Capella presently are the most widely used flavour house for e-liquid flavours. The majority of the flavours we use are from Capella or FA.

Also the 74%, as I understand it, refers to either AP or Diacetyl. While diacetyl has been known to be bad for a long time, AP is a relatively new bad kid on the block, so it's entirely possible that a chunk of this 74% contain AP and not Diacetyl.


We plan on taking the good doctors advice and are getting all of the flavours we use GC-MS tested over the autumn so we are 100% certain that nothing we produce contains either Diacetyl or AP. right now we take whats on the MSDS sheets at face value, which is not ideal, and is the point Dr F is making in this study.

Getting all this testing done, is very expensive. If we need to get 100 flavours tested at £100 a test ...

The problem is that they have to subsitute Diacetyl or AP with something and that something seems to be Butyric acid - how many studies have been done in inhalation of that so far and will this be more of the same later down the line?

A few of our flavours do use AP as their Diacetyl subsitute so we advise low wattage or heat on creams and custard types to stop it catalysing - as you say though as producers we can only take data sheets at face value and most (if not all) my suppliers state their flavours with Diacetyl as not suitable for vaping and advise again on AP. TFA are AFAIK releasing their updated french vanilla deluxe V2 with Butyric instead of AP and it isn't exactly the same as the original, how much it differs or affects a juice overall will only be known once I have tested and steeped them all fully.

As you say though having GC-MS testing is the way forward for us all I think and it aint cheap, in the meantime I think most users just need to understand that when they smoked they took in up to 100x more Diacetyl than was classified as safe so the very fact eliquid producers and flavourists are all over this so rabidly should speak volumes about the care and attention we all take in keeping things as risk free as possible. Inhaling stuff is NOT risk free though, if you want to be 100% certain then stop vaping too and move the country or away from industry and traffic.