The clone question again I'm afraid.

[eyeball kid]

Because some of the atty producers he's asking about are small enthusiast setups, not big companies. (Snapdragon for one) - who have done lots of R and D and made a product because they love doing it.

Often they gamble any money they have made previously on all the materials and CNC time etc on a new atty.

Guys like that deserve being supported, so testing on a Clone first then buying an original (if you like it) is a good and honourable thing to do in my opinion.

I did exactly that with the snappy. Also POTV has been a valuable resource. I know for a fact that should Rob or simong recommend a mtl tank then it's worth my money or sirlugg recommend a big boy rda, mannikon recommend a squonk rda then it makes my to buy list. In my line of work and with my health some weeks are good weeks some bad (in the financial sense) but when I can afford something special I usually find the genuine of my current favourite rda but.due to the small run enthusiasts market it's becoming very difficult to do now. By time I've tried the clone the genuine is often long gone. I actually bought the "insane" from Canada earlier this year on a certain ZT' s recommendation as I hadn't seen him recommend anything since the heron and that is in constant bunkr use.

 

[Chris K]

Meh, OP if you're happy with your setup, screw what other people think.

I have a selection of genuines and clones. If I'm asked I won't hide that fact. Have a genuine Kennedy 24 sat on a Rogue Clone. Kennedy cost 3 times what the clone Rogue mech cost. I couldn't justify the price of a genuine Rogue and the clone does exactly what I need and still looks great. I have both a genuine Goon LP and a clone Goon LP, I did it the other way around though, bought the genuine and then bought clone later.

End of the day, it's what you can justify and what you are happy with.

 

[speedfreek67]

Okay, well my take on this might not be popular, but here it is.

I cannot afford to buy high end tanks. I earn the average wage, but live in London and due to my circumstances (and my ex) I am stuck in the renting trap, so I don't have an excess amount of disposable income. There is no way I could justify spending £75 on a little Psyclone Hadaly or £160+ on an ESG Skyline or an Animodz 2K16 Doggystyle.

But if I ask here what is a good squonkable dripper for single coil builds and restricted lung hits, or a good RTA for MTL vaping, and someone tells me that the SXK or Coppervape clone is good, and it is within my limited budget, then I will jump at the chance to buy it.

I would love to be in the financial position to support the small manufacturers of high quality products, but unfortunately I am not.

Are they losing out on income, because of me? No, they are not. All their tanks were produced in limited numbers, and they all sold out. They got all the money they were going to get from producing those items. They make no money from people flipping their items afterwards, but what they do get is prestige, which hopefully ensures that the next production run of whatever they make will also sell at a high price, and sell out.

So, my not buying their tanks, be it for financial or availability reasons, is not hurting them at all.

Would I buy a clone of a Geekvape Ammit or a Wotofo SMM tank? No, I would not, as the originals are available at reasonable prices.

Now, they question is, should I be treated with derision by vape snobs because of the above? Should a rich man with his limited edition McLaren car look down his nose at poorer people like me, who can only afford to run a 15 year old Ford Mondeo?

 

[gazlynn]

Me personally, I'd like to think that I'm not a vape snob but I do own some "high end" vaping gear and tend not to use clones. It's a passion of mines and although I'm not minted I'm in the autumn of my life and am fortunate to have some disposable income atm. I'm happy to support smaller innovative manufactures but that's me.

Yes I do sometimes wonder splashing out £100 for an attie is OTT but to put it into context me and the missus went out last night and I spent £80 (just checked my wallet) and all I've got to show for it is a fuzzy head this morning.

Do I look down on people that use clones or cheaper gear? Definately not, and I'm one of the first to recommend the likes of the squeeze and the pulse rda.

Also remember that it can work the other way where people automatically think you're a "vape snob" for using high end gear.

Another thing to consider is that the authentic will hold it's re-sale value much more than a clone and if you're lucky enough to get your hands on attie / mod of the moment you can usually move it on for rrp.

I suppose vape what you're happy with and can afford as it matters a fek to me as long as it keeps us vapers on track (keeping us all off the stinkies)

cheers

Gaz

 

[speedfreek67]

Now, they question is, should I be treated with derision by vape snobs because of the above? Should a rich man with his limited edition McLaren car look down his nose at poorer people like me, who can only afford to run a 15 year old Ford Mondeo?

Actually, I have realised that this is a very bad analogy. This discussion is not about vape snobbery per se, it is about how clones are perceived.

My car analogy would equate to the snobbery of someone using an expensive and exclusive high-end tank looking down their nose at someone using a 4 year old Nautilus tank that was readily available and relatively cheap at the time. Or people using Asmodus or DNA boards deriding those who use SMOK mods. That isn't what this is about.

This is about clones.

Why do they exist, and why do people buy them? Do these two questions have the same answer?

In most instances of cloning items, say in the fashion trade - like fake Louis Vuitton bags, people buy them in order to convey a false impression of prestige. It is about how you look to others. I doubt anyone considers how the bag will perform in comparison to the original, as the performance aspect is not the reason they are buying it. They want to look good in front of their friends, it's a game of one-upmanship.

I doubt very much the same is true about cloned atties. Or if that is the case (cue some snobbery ironically!), it might be some snap-back wearing immature teenager wanting to pretend amongst his peer group that he has money to burn. But that is not the reason WE buy clones, is it? We buy them because we want the performance to be as close to the original as we can get (either because of financial constraints, or lack of availability of the original). We aren't trying to pass them off as original in order to impress people, and this is something that seem peculiar to the vape industry when considered in relation to other forms of clone or counterfeit goods.

So, why did I hear, for instance, in the case of VapeFest, some people saying words to the effect of "don't take clones to VapeFest" ? Hmmm ?

 

[oldhippydude]

My decision to use cheap Chinese clones of some classic and well regarded kit (nemesis, smpl, tobh, royal hunter, narda, kayfun, kraken) did no financial harm to the makers of the originals. I was never going to be in the market for originals, being beyond my financial means.

The losers were the makers of cheap Chinese originals. I know my clone nemesis purchases would have been replaced by a smok magneto, being one of the few original mechs i could have afforded at the time. Companies like advken once they moved towards original kit and relying less on clones would probably also got some of my cash.

I am glad that others can afford to support the true innovators and designers of great kit, but many of us were never going to be customers even if clones were driven out of the market. We would be buying derivative originals made by the same Chinese cloners we buy from now.

 

[gazlynn]

Actually, I have realised that this is a very bad analogy. This discussion is not about vape snobbery per se, it is about how clones are perceived.

My car analogy would equate to the snobbery of someone using an expensive and exclusive high-end tank looking down their nose at someone using a 4 year old Nautilus tank that was readily available and relatively cheap at the time. Or people using Asmodus or DNA boards deriding those who use SMOK mods. That isn't what this is about.

This is about clones.

Why do they exist, and why do people buy them? Do these two questions have the same answer?

In most instances of cloning items, say in the fashion trade - like fake Louis Vuitton bags, people buy them in order to convey a false impression of prestige. It is about how you look to others. I doubt anyone considers how the bag will perform in comparison to the original, as the performance aspect is not the reason they are buying it. They want to look good in front of their friends, it's a game of one-upmanship.

I doubt very much the same is true about cloned atties. Or if that is the case (cue some snobbery ironically!), it might be some snap-back wearing immature teenager wanting to pretend amongst his peer group that he has money to burn. But that is not the reason WE buy clones, is it? We buy them because we want the performance to be as close to the original as we can get (either because of financial constraints, or lack of availability of the original). We aren't trying to pass them off as original in order to impress people, and this is something that seem peculiar to the vape industry when considered in relation to other forms of clone or counterfeit goods.

So, why did I hear, for instance, in the case of VapeFest, some people saying words to the effect of "don't take clones to VapeFest" ? Hmmm ?

This is just my opinion so please take this with a pinch of salt...

When I first started vaping clones where a god send to me as I wanted to try anything and everything. Now after a couple of years vaping I know what I personally like and enjoy so my vaping purchases have fallen dramatically and where as I used to buy 5 clones I now buy 1 authentic.

Strange you should mention bags as I was in Morroco earlier this year. Here clones / fakes are rife... The sad thing is there are some very talented leather goods makers there and I had to look high and low to find a bag that didn't have LV, Prada, micheal corrs and the likes emblazend all over it.

Back in vapeland, yes I do believe that a competative type enviroment exists as some of these atties, mods are very difficult to get hold of. Is that the fault of the manufacturers not producing enough or is the demand too high? I'll let you decide that m8.

I also believe as I've done myself the urge for vapers to post handchecks on vaping internet sites of the "Look what I've got" is huge but I don't think it's to do with how expensive the product is but it show's to other vapers that you're "in the know" and very happy with your find / purchase so to speak within the vaping community.

I personally didn't hear anything regarding no clones at VF, The only thing I would suggest is again if you are attending VF 90% are pretty commited to vaping and would probably pour scorn at clone users.

If you don't tell them it's a clone they wouldn't know and I for one have never asked a fellow vaper is that a clone?

cheers

Gaz

 

[oldhippydude]

We buy them because we want the performance to be as close to the original as we can get (either because of financial constraints, or lack of availability of the original). We aren't trying to pass them off as original in order to impress people, and this is something that seem peculiar to the vape industry when considered in relation to other forms of clone or counterfeit goods.

I for one would prefer that my clones did not have logos or other fake branding on them so it was clear they were not originals.

 

[nordelen]

I feel that I have been lucky with the original vape gear I've bought so far. I buy lower priced stuff like OBS, Pioneer4u and such. They suit me, and do what I want them to do. Would I buy a clone? Sure, if it was an atty that I was really curious about. I'm not going to drop £50+ on an atty that sounds good on a website's blurb, only to discover that the airflow isn't right for me. Then when I have some spare cash I might buy the original. If I can get hold of it, that is.

 

[speedfreek67]

I personally didn't hear anything regarding no clones at VF, The only thing I would suggest is again if you are attending VF 90% are pretty commited to vaping and would probably pour scorn at clone users.

But that implies that clone users aren't committed to vaping, does it not? It implies that people who buy originals do see themselves as being somehow better (more committed to vaping) than people who can only get clones. That's one reason why I didn't go to vapefest - it does seem too elitist or cliquey. My daily tank at the moment is an unbranded Coppervape Skyline and anyone "in the know" who sees it will instantly know it's a clone.

If you don't tell them it's a clone they wouldn't know and I for one have never asked a fellow vaper is that a clone?

So we vaping muggles must avoid offending the elite with our clones, or fear having scorn poured upon us?

(I'm not talking about you here Gaz, but this is how the elitist vapers are perceived, rightly or wrongly.)