The Diacetyl Dilemma

[knome]

Anyone who quotes Granny Weatherwax goes in my "Coolbook".

Just as a matter of interest, who quoted Granny Weatherwax?

 

[kris73]

Nikki from Mars!

 

[u8myufo]

I've got some castle long here .. given to me kindly by @u8myufo

its rather nice

Rather nice,just like the cunt who sent it eh? Some good replies to the question here,as mentioned everybody should make an informed decision for themselves.And just like any decision we make they will be varied, and all for diferent reasons.Sure I am all for testing and setting out recommendations,but those recommendations have to be based on known facts,not just on figures they think it should be.Take PSA prostate cancer levels for example,I watched an interview where the guy who came up with the calculation and figure was being interviewed.He pointed out that the figure given was just a guidline and nothing more.Yet big pharma and whoever else involved lowered that guideline figure quite substantially,I wonder fucking why? Even now every doctor in every town or city will give people diferent figures as to what their PSA count needs to be.Right,time to top up on the Castle Long now

 

[cheersm8]

Just in case anybody new to this thread and is reading it because they may have health concerns about Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl that may be contained within their e-liquid, and, just in case, the point in the OP's original post has been missed.

1. The quantities of Diacetyl discovered in Traditional Tobacco Smoke have been, on average, 100 times HIGHER than those found in e-cigarettes. Another similar chemical, Acetyl Propionyl, has been discovered at levels 10 times HIGHER within traditional cigarettes than within e-cigarettes.

2. Although the quantities of these chemicals are HIGHER within traditional cigarettes There have been ZERO cases of "popcorn lung" found to have been caused by the inhalation of Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl during the entire history of smoking, which has a history exceeding vaping by 100's of years.

This information should be recognised and taken into consideration when making your decisions about e-liquids, and even more so, should be HIGHLIGHTED within any e-cigarette health related articles, studies, and "scary stories"

It's one thing knowing that e-liquid might contain these harmful chemicals, and, on the face of it, that can come across as a cause for concern, but information regarding the ACTUAL RISKS from e-cigarettes can only become clear when the above information is included within the Risk Assessment process.

100% of the anti vaping scare articles found around the internet and in some newspapers and magazines, that are SHOUTING about the evil Daicetyl found in e-cigarettes fail to include a reference to the same chemicals found at higher levels within traditional cigarettes.
Most of the pro vaping information available Shouting about the efforts being made to ensure that you juice is safe, also omit any traditional cigarette comparisons.

Using information selectively to add weight, and omitting information that can detract from the impact is a system that has been found to work on both sides of all fences.

 

[Mawsley]

I don't think it does vaping any service to play down the situation. The proposition that because there's no substantial body of evidence for the danger of diketones in smoking leading to the conclusion that therefore there's no danger from diketones in vape is a logical fallacy.

Seeing as popcorn lung is nigh-on identical to COPD, it is impossible to make the statement that smokers haven't suffered from the effects of diketones. It's also impossible to prove because no one wants to spend money discovering exactly what part of the fag did someone in.

It is generally accepted by those in science (without a vested interest) that diketones cause lung damage, add nothing to the quality of liquids and should be avoided.

In a similar vein, some of C9V's results are above those found in fags. There's no argument that can justify this, 5P's obfuscation of the truth or their lies in response to enquiries.

Pretending there's no risk or nothing to worry about plays into the legislators hands, it's a failure of self-regulation.

 

[Gonloopy]

I don't think it does vaping any service to play down the situation. The proposition that because there's no substantial body of evidence for the danger of diketones in smoking leading to the conclusion that therefore there's no danger from diketones in vape is a logical fallacy.

Seeing as popcorn lung is nigh-on identical to COPD, it is impossible to make the statement that smokers haven't suffered from the effects of diketones. It's also impossible to prove because no one wants to spend money discovering exactly what part of the fag did someone in.

It is generally accepted by those in science (without a vested interest) that diketones cause lung damage, add nothing to the quality of liquids and should be avoided.

In a similar vein, some of C9V's results are above those found in fags. There's no argument that can justify this, 5P's obfuscation of the truth or their lies in response to enquiries.

Pretending there's no risk or nothing to worry about plays into the legislators hands, it's a failure of self-regulation.

THIS ^
I was just writing a post with the exact same meaning behind it. You've saved me the trouble and done a far better job of it anyway

 

[ned]

In a similar vein, some of C9V's results are above those found in fags. There's no argument that can justify this, 5P's obfuscation of the truth or their lies in response to enquiries.

^for me this is the bit that matters.

did i ever buy it? no. could i afford to? just about.was i close at times to buying a bottle because i believed the hype? yep.

 

[cheersm8]

Pretending there's no risk or nothing to worry about plays into the legislators hands, it's a failure of self-regulation.

Self Regulation -

The guist of the development of a similar Diacetyl/Acetyl Propionyl thread on another vaping forum.

Discussion about these chemicals in e-liquids.
Vendor posts Certificate to demonstrate that his/her juice has been tested and found to be "free from contaminants and flavour chemicals with known inhalation risks"
Loads of posts submitting High Praise.
Senior member questions the certificate with - "Did testing include not just the bottled juice but the juice vapour after it was heated?"
Ensuing follow up posts along the line of "Good point" "yes, I wondered that"
New member posts - "Was it certified 100% diacetyl free? Does it contain acetoin?Were the tests in liquid form or in vaporised form?"
Responses to this post - "you're a joke!" , "you bell end" "stench of a troll" "don't question the vendor, you twat, he's a top bloke, we all trust him" and others, not quite so polite.

Both the question from the Senior Member and the New Member were never answered, in the thread, by the Certificate Holder who, to be fair, never really got the chance to respond.

Not a pop at you Mawsley , self regulation can (or should be) only beneficial, just illustrating an example of failed self regulation within the vaping community. I, also, haven't made this post for it to be some kind of a big deal. We all know that it's easier to dig up shite during a "google" than it is to dig up positive stuff. This is also not a Dig at the juice vendor, whoever that may be, or the juice, whatever that may be, both, of which, are more than likely superb. This is also not meant to be a post that is derogatory towards any Vaping Forum, they all do a grand job with regards to making vaping information freely available.

 

[ned]

Self Regulation -

The guist of the development of a similar Diacetyl/Acetyl Propionyl thread on another vaping forum.

Discussion about these chemicals in e-liquids.
Vendor posts Certificate to demonstrate that his/her juice has been tested and found to be "free from contaminants and flavour chemicals with known inhalation risks"
Loads of posts submitting High Praise.
Senior member questions the certificate with - "Did testing include not just the bottled juice but the juice vapour after it was heated?"
Ensuing follow up posts along the line of "Good point" "yes, I wondered that"
New member posts - "Was it certified 100% diacetyl free? Does it contain acetoin?Were the tests in liquid form or in vaporised form?"
Responses to this post - "you're a joke!" , "you bell end" "stench of a troll" "don't question the vendor, you twat, he's a top bloke, we all trust him" and others, not quite so polite.

Both the question from the Senior Member and the New Member were never answered, in the thread, by the Certificate Holder.

Not a pop at you Mawsley , self regulation can (or should be) only beneficial, just illustrating an example of failed self regulation within the vaping community

now thats a post that will make everyone think

 

[the spice must flow]

100% of the anti vaping scare articles found around the internet and in some newspapers and magazines, that are SHOUTING about the evil Daicetyl found in e-cigarettes fail to include a reference to the same chemicals found at higher levels within traditional cigarettes.
Most of the pro vaping information available Shouting about the efforts being made to ensure that you juice is safe, also omit any traditional cigarette comparisons.

Thanks, after 25 years of smoking i do not think vaping some custard can be that bad. However, as my approach to vaping was to get away from that shit storm of chemicals and poisons, I personally will mix it up a bit and say vape 50% free and 50% which contain AP.

Fortunately for DIYers the info on flavours are more precise compared to pre-made juices.

Thanks peeps, reading this (the bloody whole thing) REALLY clarified the whole issue for me and now i feel at ease.

Happy Vapin