Vamo Woe...

[McAldo]

Not a 100% sure but don't you get funny readings on a multimeter because the vamo pwn delivery

You are definetely right, you would need more than a garden variety multimeter to measure the actual output on a modulated pulse device.
And you would need to set it right too.
Typically, if it wasn't a resistance mounted in a atty, the right way of measuring it would be to average of the pulses voltage over the time unit.
That's what the vamo designers figured out people would do for checking the device output and compare it to what the display showed. Unfortunately, this produced an actual wattage (heat) much higher, so despite what the averaged figure might say, the actual equivalent voltage was much higher, particularly when setting the device at low watts/volts.
It's so funny how, in order to ensure geeks would be happy with the vamo precision, they had to design a faulty device
The revision introduced the second mode, which is correct.

 

[VaperCaper]

What I found with mine when I started using it was that after setting it to 7 or 8W, I actually burnt the wick in my atty. No matter what I vaped at or what juice I used after that, everything tasted crap. After switching to a freshh atty and lowering the watts to 6, it was a revelation

You can't actually burn the wick itself. Silica can take a lot of heat. You can actually blowtorch it and it won't burn and coils don't get as hot as a torch flame. What's burning is the e-liquid, which sticks to the wick and will make future drags on your coil taste bad.

You can clean this off relatively easily and get more life from your atomisers. take your atomiser apart and rinse off any excess gunk under cold running water, dry it out as much as you can with paper towel. Screw the coil onto a battery without the tank etc attached, so that you can see the coil and wick and fire the coil till you see it glow red. Take your finger off the fire button and blow on the coil. What this does is burn the gunk that's stuck to the coil into ash, which is got rid of when you blow on it. Repeat this process a few times and you should see the wick looking whiter again. (If it stays looking black then this isn't going to work and you need to replace it) You shouldn't need to replace the coil until it actually breaks and won't fire, or you burn juice onto it so badly that this type of cleaning doesn't help.

It sounds like the OP is a "supertaster" different people taste things differently. The more tastebuds you have crammed onto your tongue the more taste you get. If you're very sensitive to taste (a "supertaster") you might well pickup tastes that most of the rest of us don't get.

Vamo's (and pretty much any of the current VW devices on the market) use Pulse Width Modulation to get things firing at the selected power level. As described upthread this means the vamo is firing at 6volts and 'pulsing' it's firing frequency to get the average power level down to where it's been selected. For most people this works out great. It means that the coils is getting hotter, so you get a warmer vape, though it also means other 'bits' in the atomiser head are also getting hotter as well during the firing cycle. In the case of a vivi nova or an evod then these 'bits' include a rubber grommet thing that holds the centre post in place (see PBusardos vivi nova rebuild video) The way those tanks are built means they just use resistance wire for the coils.

It sounds to me like you can taste the rubber scorching slightly during use that most of us can't. If you much prefer vaping at low power levels it sounds like your sense of taste is much stronger than the average person. If that is the case then pretty much any VW device is going to work out the same for you.


Or you could have vapers tongue, where everything some days just tastes like mush. (Baking Soda toothpaste usually clears that up) Or your Vamo is hitting things *really* hard and it's burning the crap out of stuff, though the multimeter readings you describe sound within normal operation.

If you can get hold of a tank/atomiser that uses a no resistance/resistance/no resistance type of coil where when you fire it only the coil gets hot you should find you can vape at a higher power level with lots more flavour if it is being a "supertaster" that's causing this.

 

[Zenarchy]

It sounds to me like you can taste the rubber scorching slightly during use that most of us can't. If you much prefer vaping at low power levels it sounds like your sense of taste is much stronger than the average person. If that is the case then pretty much any VW device is going to work out the same for you.

I'm not sure if that will always be the case. On the oscilloscope output of a vamo you can see a square wave pulsing between 0 and 6v very clearly. With some of the other devices (the provari and some of the itaste ones in particular), while they're still using pulse width modulation, the oscilloscope line is by comparison very flat around the voltage it is meant to be. I think the provari is producing a much closer pulse to achieve this (so would probably look more like the vamo on an oscilliscope with a higher sample rate?). Not sure about the other devices. When I looked into it I discovered that a very simple circuit using a capacitor can flatten out the pwm so perhaps that is used on some devices too (it'd be an interesting little device to add in between the battery and atomizer for anyone with the know how, tools and inclination to do it).

I'm sure I read somewhere that the ego spinners have a flatter output as they're using a more simple resistance circuit or something (albeit at the expense of battery life), but I haven't seen anyone confirm this. Likewise the kick for mech mods I think someone mentioned had a flatter output (though again not completely sure that is true either).

So there might be VV/VW devices that are better than the vamo in this respect.

Whether this makes any significant difference to the taste I'm doubtful myself. When I compared the vamo to a mod producing a flat output, with the same atomizer at roughly the same voltage, any difference I could notice was at the "this is so subtle I might be imagining it" level, but then I'm probably not the sort of supertaster that you're talking about (though I do get a slight taste of scorched rubber/silicone at times with the vivi nova and protank whether I use a vamo or not).

 

[Brainfish]

I know how to clean atty's. This could not be cleaned off. It was black. Nothing could shift the burnt taste after that.

 

[Camel]

Wow, some serious knowledge out there - thanks very much for all the info. I've returned the Vamo now, and have reverted to my original ego setup whilst I get over the disappointment and disillusionment!

However, I'm not giving up that easily, and my quest to take it to the next level continues... I'm going to save up for a higher end mod (Provari probably), which in my current circumstances will take some time. However, that's probably not such a bad thing as I really need to spend some time finding some more juices I like, as having only two I really like isn't great.

Thanks again for all your help - this forum is an absolute godsend...

 

[VaperCaper]

I know how to clean atty's. This could not be cleaned off. It was black. Nothing could shift the burnt taste after that.

I'm not saying you don't, just writing out how to do it so that anyone reading this that didn't know that can squeeze a bit extra life out of their atomisers

If you set something to 8W and it burns juice onto the wick so badly that this type of cleaning doesn't fix it, then it's likely the mod isn't supplying 8W - it's way over that ( A Vamo in mode n01 is good at hitting things with way over the set power level). The sugars that are in the juice start degrading and burning at ~170C. A perfectly dry coil will get a lot hotter than that, an almost dry coil that has a little e-liquid on it is going to burn badly and be really hard to clean so it might also be that your wick isn't doing much wicking.

I'm not sure if that will always be the case. [...] So there might be VV/VW devices that are better than the vamo in this respect.

VV devices certainly, VW there will be. On the market right now the current crop of VW devices that are widely available are using the same electronics that produce the 'flat wave' type signal. The SVD all of the ZMax varaints by Smok and by Sigelei, the Smok SID and the Vamo are all firing the same 6v pulsed signal. Afaik devices based on DNA-20 chips will produce a different signal so you might well get better results from something like an Opus-D or any of the upcoming DNA-20 based devices.

(though I do get a slight taste of scorched rubber/silicone at times with the vivi nova and protank whether I use a vamo or not).

There's a lot of things that can cause a 'burnt rubber' taste. When you fire a coil it gets hot (duh) and it heats up anything that is near it. If it heats up things like rubber grommets, silicon washers etc this can give you a taste you don't want. There can also be dirt on the wick (brand new silica wicks commonly have 'stuff' on them that will give you a bad flavour, which is why some silica wick setups will taste better after they have been 'broken in', you're burning off this dirt when you break them in) dirt in the tank that mixes with your juice and makes it taste weird etc etc.

Some devices like a Vamo because of the way they fire can exacerbate the poor flavour, some don't. If you are more sensitive to tastes then it'll be much more noticeable. If you're still smoking then your tastebuds are shot anyway. Somedays you just get random 'can't taste anything much' moments (vapers tongue)

Getting your setup right for you is a balancing act. You want to get enough power through the coil to get it hot enough to vapourise the e-liquid that's on the wick, you need the wick to transport just enough juice to the coil. As it's much easier to vary the power than the wicking we have a lot of VV and VW devices around and not so many variable wicking devices around.

 

[Zenarchy]

If it heats up things like rubber grommets, silicon washers etc this can give you a taste you don't want.

I'm pretty sure that's the cause in my case, though it's worse on the protank. I can see little singe marks on the grommet under the coil. They use NR wire on the original heads which seem to help (though I still see some slight marking on the grommet).

I don't have a wire welder, so I've been doubling up/twisting the coil legs which seems to help a bit when rebuilding but isn't quite as good as the stock heads. I don't mind so much because I use the aga-t most of the time and the protank mostly for when I go out, so buying new heads isn't a problem, and the taste I can put up with (for the sake of convenience).

Though last night I discovered a big thread on another forum about micro coils where the coil is tighter and has more wraps (to the point the wraps deliberately touch each other - something that the tutorials I read before say should be avoided). I recoiled an old protank head along those lines and the result seems much better. The coil resistance ended up quite high, but oddly it fires at low voltage and heats up more quickly than a LR coil, and it heats from the middle of the coil outwards leaving the legs cooler. Vapour seems to be about the same, but flavour is MUCH stronger, and burning taste reduced massively even with out doubling up the legs (going to try doubling up the legs next as I have a feeling that will make it perfect - or as close to perfect as possible with that rubber grommet - I wish the protank was SS and used a different method of mounting the coil then it'd be brilliant).

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th-3.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modding-forum/346524-spin-e-coil-sure-coil-e-wind-e.html

it's a bit fiddly and took me a couple of attempts to get it working and wicking OK but it seems to be a definite improvement on my earlier attempts at recoiling the protank (and an improvement over the stock heads). The coil I made is a bit fatter than some of them above though (probably around 2 to 2.5mm I'm guessing).

P.S. That second thread is slightly different but look at the photos of how the coils glow from the middle outwards and leave the legs cool even without NR wire or them being wrapped back on themselves.

 

[Zenarchy]

Wow, some serious knowledge out there - thanks very much for all the info. I've returned the Vamo now, and have reverted to my original ego setup whilst I get over the disappointment and disillusionment!

However, I'm not giving up that easily, and my quest to take it to the next level continues... I'm going to save up for a higher end mod (Provari probably), which in my current circumstances will take some time. However, that's probably not such a bad thing as I really need to spend some time finding some more juices I like, as having only two I really like isn't great.

Thanks again for all your help - this forum is an absolute godsend...

I'm guessing the provari is good because so many people swear by it despite its high cost. But if you have a look at the fasttech site for the 'itaste' devices, and check out some of the reviews on youtube for them by "P Busardo" then you can probably find one that's very close to as accurate as the provari (if not better in some scenarios), for about the same price as a vamo.

I seem to remember the "itaste MVP" he reviewed was more accurate/less fluctuating voltage wise than the provari on his oscilloscope (though I can't remember the exact details so you'd be best to check in case I'm wrong - and of course there's probably more than just the voltage that's different compared to the provari so swings and roundabouts).

EDIT>> Though it might be worth waiting to see what the seller says about the one you've returned in case it's faulty. You might have just been unlucky and got a dud one of course as most people seem happy with the vamo (me included).

 

[DrummerNZ]

My Vamo V3 ordered from Fasttech on the 9th June arrived today. Only 16 working days, not as bad as some.
Not sure if it's working properly though. I have got my Protank on it that I coiled at 1.7ohms. On my Lavatube V1 I was running that at 4.2v with great taste but with the Vamo V3 I can't run it over 3.2v or I get nasty burnt taste. If I run it in 'power' mode it seems 6.5watts is the sweet spot. I have no idea if that is normal or not. If I want to explore the higher voltage & wattage settings do I need a Higher or lower resistance coil?

 

[Ztevie]

If you want to explore the higher end of your volt settings you will need a higher resistance coil.
You can use this table to work out your power settings(watts) according to volts and resistance.
Underneath the table is the formula for calculating power in watts.

For example if you were using a setting of 4 volts with a 2 ohm coil, you would take 4 volts squared =16 and divide this by your coil resistance of 2 ohms, which would give you a power of 8 watts (16/2=8)
Hope this helps.