Vape shops selling to non-smokers

[Simon G]

http://www.ibvta.org.uk/vaping-non-smokers

this is it without the media spin.

"It is therefore disappointing to see the RSPH making headlines for an unfounded concern, rather than for some of the excellent points they raise in their report."

 

[Greebo]

I take great umbrage that everytime I buy a bottle of gin, nobody asks me if I've drunk it before. Probably the red eyes are a giveaway.

 

[Simon G]

This is also reflected in the day-to-day experience of IBVTA members. We can therefore safely conclude that non-smokers are not routinely going into vape shops to buy vaping devices and e-liquids and there is no evidence to suggest that this is likely to change.

It's another story made out of something that isn't even a story.

Have we got to a point where we can't discuss anything in a sensible manner, raise any concerns, do any studies without it being spun against us by the media?

Seems we are fucked either way.

 

[junglist]

We all have different opinions @simong - that's just the way life is and there is nothing wrong with us all having different thoughts and feelings and discussing what and why we believe certain things.

I reckon if that bloke in the corner shop had said no you probably would have gone and tried another at another time and still ended up on them. I always thought I was going to smoke and started at the age of 13 too, they were damn nice Not JPS though - eugh!

Nicotine has been seen to help with mental health issues from what I can remember. Nic is also an appetite suppressant. If someone asked me if they should continue stuffing their faces with food or have the odd toot on an ecig as a way of trying to reduce food intake I would tell them to try ecigs. 95% safer than smoking is pretty full on. Recent studies about the lack of dna mutations in cells from vapour exposure are very good signs as well. Still not calling vaping absolutely safe but I think in terms of overall danger levels it is looking pretty good.

Yup, I encourage my kids not to touch nic as well, more from the money point of view than to damage to health though.

My other thought is that we should not be policing this like this. Like @Greebo just said, what about limiting alcohol sales? What about The Fast Food Association having a list of rules that includes not selling burgers to people who have never tried them before so they don't develop an eating habit?

 

[Simon G]

We all have different opinions @simong - that's just the way life is and there is nothing wrong with us all having different thoughts and feelings and discussing what and why we believe certain things.

I reckon if that bloke in the corner shop had said no you probably would have gone and tried another at another time and still ended up on them. I always thought I was going to smoke and started at the age of 13 too, they were damn nice Not JPS though - eugh!

Nicotine has been seen to help with mental health issues from what I can remember. Nic is also an appetite suppressant. If someone asked me if they should continue stuffing their faces with food or have the odd toot on an ecig as a way of trying to reduce food intake I would tell them to try ecigs. 95% safer than smoking is pretty full on. Recent studies about the lack of dna mutations in cells from vapour exposure are very good signs as well. Still not calling vaping absolutely safe but I think in terms of overall danger levels it is looking pretty good.

Yup, I encourage my kids not to touch nic as well, more from the money point of view than to damage to health though.

My other thought is that we should not be policing this like this. Like @Greebo just said, what about limiting alcohol sales? What about The Fast Food Association having a list of rules that includes not selling burgers to people who have never tried them before so they don't develop an eating habit?

You are right.... and I fell into that stupid trap that the media set up for me. I should have known better, always go to the source and read that before commenting!

This should have been the headline in the press....

This is also reflected in the day-to-day experience of IBVTA members. We can therefore safely conclude that non-smokers are not routinely going into vape shops to buy vaping devices and e-liquids and there is no evidence to suggest that this is likely to change.

.... and we all would have said "Oh, that's good news,well done IBTTA, good to know that loads of non-smokers aren't becoming nicotine addicts"

nope divide and conquer approach yet again.

 

[junglist]

Clive Bates' take on it - worth a read - https://www.clivebates.com/?p=4753

 

[stu pid]

Little bit late to the party on this one and not read everything, but if someone over 18 goes into a shop and asks for 20 cigarettes do they get asked if they've smoked before? [emoji15]

 

[Smut]

Arent vapers none smokers? xD

 

[BlackCoffee]

Some non smokers do those hookah things- nobody goes on about those, and Yemeni guys chew the ghat- never see anything about that in the news either! E cigs are a legal product for adults, and safer than smoking. Better to vape than smoke! As long as they are not being sold to under 18s!

 

[nikki from mars]

Some non smokers do those hookah things- nobody goes on about those, and Yemeni guys chew the ghat- never see anything about that in the news either! E cigs are a legal product for adults, and safer than smoking. Better to vape than smoke! As long as they are not being sold to under 18s!

Khat is now illegal in the UK... so over here at least it was in the news prior to the ban and around that time but not anymore.. and there is a big difference between that and nicotine as it also alters mood perception and behaviour, in particular because it is linked to increases in violent behaviour... nicotine has no such similar effect... there is sometimes nicotine and tobacco in the shisha pipes that you are referring to but far less than in smoking cigarettes and yes some people who class themselves as non smokers do use them... I would question whether they can really say they are none smokers although they would count as only occassional/social smokers.. and not as tobacco/nicotine smokers in many cases... same as people who smoke marijuana often count themselves as non smokers whether they use tobacco/herbal mixes or just a pipe with only the drug in it I would still say they smoke... not necessarily often and not necessarily tobacco/nicotine but if you light something and inhale it that counts as smoking still to me... and I know of a few marijuana only smokers that have switched to vaping nicotine to stop smoking that... even though they are 2 very different substances with very different effects.. if vape sales were policed on the basis of whether or not one has previously smoked nicotine containing tobacco they would still be marijuana smokers no doubt... and as was discussed on the bbc programme where the doctor vaped for a month (having never previously smoked or vaped) there was a researcher who said that burning and smoking anything (not just tobacco, his example was lettuce leaves) there will still be carcinogens and toxins produced by doing this to any material... so the people you mention using those things will be unwittingly increasing their cancer risk as because of the way the media report on it people think it is only tobacco smoking that increases these risks... other studies for example have shown that marijuana only smokers may actually be more at risk of lung cancers than tobacco smokers because they inhale the smoke that is produced far deeper into the lungs and hold it there rather than a more shallow quick inhale more typical of a tobacco smoker (of course most such smokers smoke less frequently so isnt exactly equivalent except for those heavily dependent marijuana smokers who use it as frequently as tobacco users do with their drug of choice (nicotine))