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e-cigarette explodes into fireball

Why are we even arguing over this. As the number of uk vapers increases more stories like this are going to appear. Yes sadly some one could of got hurt not playing that down. But we all know that lithium cells should be under observation when charging. As there nature is a volatile one unless cared for. I have to ask.

Why was a battery whether ego or not, its still a battery. Being charged in a bar. Where it could easily be introduced to liquid. Lots of people drinking. Things get spilt. Was this battery the case of a spillage?

We need to concentrate on the good things and get papers to run stories for the benefits of vaping. Like Ethel quits 60 a day habit. Avoids emphysema and after 3 months is less likely to contract lung cancer. Rant over
 
@Dagger People clearly can't read, an apple iPad adapter is a power supply, repeat power supply.
Its rated at 2.1a.
The charging circuit is in the iPad. got it.
This is the problem, people not understanding the difference between a power supply and charger.
The port of an iPad power adapter is not repeat not a usb port! This is where the problem occurs.
Clarified. I hope so.

Unfortunately this is wrong, A power supply is exactly that, a supply regardless of whether that supply is from an iPad charger, a PC or an xtar wpII battery charger. The charging circuitry is in the dongle, that is the part that limits the current supplied to the battery to 420mA. Therefore the problem is not in the power supply please see my next more detailed post...
 
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I'll say this once and back it up with actual verifiable information from Cadex - a battery charger manufacturer. Whilst current is an important factor in charging Lithium batteries it is actually over voltage that destabilises Lithium cells, here are the relevant extracts.

Courtesy of Cadex:


The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and the charge time is about three hours. Manufacturers recommend charging the 18650 cell at 0.8C or less. Charge efficiency is 97 to 99 percent and the cell remains cool during charge. Some Li-ion packs may experience a temperature rise of about 5ºC (9ºF) when reaching full charge. This could be due to the protection circuit and/or elevated internal resistance. Full charge occurs when the battery reaches the voltage threshold and the current drops to three percent of the rated current. A battery is also considered fully charged if the current levels off and cannot go down further. Elevated self-discharge might be the cause of this condition.

Increasing the charge current does not hasten the full-charge state by much. Although the battery reaches the voltage peak quicker with a fast charge, the saturation charge will take longer accordingly. The amount of charge current applied simply alters the time required for each stage; Stage 1 will be shorter but the saturation Stage 2 will take longer. A high current charge will, however, quickly fill the battery to about 70 percent.

Li-ion does not need to be fully charged, as is the case with lead acid, nor is it desirable to do so. In fact, it is better not to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery. Choosing a lower voltage threshold, or eliminating the saturation charge altogether, prolongs battery life but this reduces the runtime. Since the consumer market promotes maximum runtime, these chargers go for maximum capacity rather than extended service life.



Lithium-ion operates safely within the designated operating voltages; however, the battery becomes unstable if inadvertently charged to a higher than specified voltage. Prolonged charging above 4.30V forms plating of metallic lithium on the anode, while the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and produces carbon dioxide (CO2). The cell pressure rises, and if charging is allowed to continue the current interrupt device (CID) responsible for cell safety disconnects the current at 1,380kPa (200psi).
Should the pressure rise further, a safety membrane bursts open at 3,450kPa (500psi) and the cell might eventually vent with flame. The thermal runaway moves lower when the battery is fully charged; for Li-cobalt this threshold is between 130–150C°C (266–302°F), nickel-manganese-cobalt (NMC) is 170–180°C (338–356°F), and manganese is 250°C (482°F). Li-phosphate enjoys similar and better temperature stabilities than manganese.

Lithium-ion is not the only battery that is a safety hazard if overcharged. Lead- and nickel-based batteries are also known to melt down and cause fire if improperly handled. Nickel-based batteries have also been recalled for safety concerns. Properly designed charging equipment is paramount for all battery systems.


It should be obvious from this that whilst current is limited to a maximum level this is to prevent heating of the battery during charging and high inrush currents on highly discharged batteries. It should also be noted that as the battery nears full charge the current drops - current is not being "Forced" into the battery it is being "drawn" this should have been obvious to everyone as we refer to coils "drawing" x number of milliamps.

It should also be obvious from the extracts above that the culprit in a charging venting event like this one would be the battery being charged over voltage and since USB is a standard voltage all the arguing over iPad chargers, Kindle chargers, car USB ports is more or less moot since A: they all supply the same voltage & B: The point of failure was most likely the dongle part allowing a too high voltage into the battery, with an actual faulty battery coming in a reasonable second option.

Hopefully this will put an end to the he said she said fight :grouphug: and let everyone focus on something more important...:beerchug
 
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Unfortunately this is wrong, A power supply is exactly that, a supply regardless of whether that supply is from an iPad charger, a PC or an xtar wpII battery charger. The charging circuitry is in the dongle, that is the part that limits the current supplied to the battery to 420mA. Therefore the problem is not in the power supply please see my next more detailed post...
I believe both you and greenoneten are basically saying pretty much the same thing though. The white bit that you plug into the wall (with the usb input-the bit most of us call the charger) and the lead supply the power, the actual charger is in the device (the iPad in this example). I'm sure he will be along after work to illustrate this better. The other post I actually sort of understand as it's exactly what he was explaining to me last night. The ego charger only needs so much power. If it gets more power than needed the excess will be converted to heat which will get hotter and hotter until the inevitable happens. Binbagz I do agree that we should be concentrating on the positives but it is also important for us "normal" folk to understand the basics to stay safe and I believe this is what this argument is about. It's not an ego (scuse the pun) arguement, it's now a couple of engineers looking out to try and help people to stay safe :)
 
I think you have missed the entire point of what i was saying ?

View attachment 23242

Its a little blurry but like i said they're regulated to 420ma regardless of what you plug them into 1A / 2A

More info on this. This ego charger/lead was not the charger/lead used. It was the stubby short one.
If you go here http://www.vapourtrails.tv/?p=8450 the footage has been slowed down. And you can see the way the battery was charging moments before it vents.
Disregarding the fact it's an ipad charger, it's being charged in the same fashion as an earlier incident, where the e-cig was purchased from the man in the pub. SUPENDED IN MID AIR stressing the connections.

As for this picture of a usb connector, the one I'm holding in my hand, which is the same type.
Clearly states
input: DC 5v 500MA
output: DC4.2v 420Ma

Note that mine states the input amps, where the one pictured does not.

The bottom line for me will always be "use for intended purpose only" that's why I have so many chargers for different things.
Ego chargers for my ego's. Nitecore for my mod bats. phone charger for yes the phone.

And not forgetting the ripmax pro-peak for the gun batteries
 
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I believe both you and greenoneten are basically saying pretty much the same thing though. The white bit that you plug into the wall (with the usb input-the bit most of us call the charger) and the lead supply the power, the actual charger is in the device (the iPad in this example). I'm sure he will be along after work to illustrate this better. The other post I actually sort of understand as it's exactly what he was explaining to me last night. The ego charger only needs so much power. If it gets more power than needed the excess will be converted to heat which will get hotter and hotter until the inevitable happens. @Binbagz I do agree that we should be concentrating on the positives but it is also important for us "normal" folk to understand the basics to stay safe and I believe this is what this argument is about. It's not an ego (scuse the pun) arguement, it's now a couple of engineers looking out to try and help people to stay safe :)

Quite possibly Purplefowler, but all I'm doing is trying to set the record exactly straight. This is one of those times where a little confusion could literally kill. I'm not being awkward just hugely pedantic as it is neccessary to clarify exactly where the problem is to ensure safety.
 
Quite possibly @Purplefowler, but all I'm doing is trying to set the record exactly straight. This is one of those times where a little confusion could literally kill. I'm not being awkward just hugely pedantic as it is neccessary to clarify exactly where the problem is to ensure safety.
Totally agree :) the trouble with you engineers though is you start talking as if us mere mortals understand and (as Greenoneten will tell you) some of us (me!) are abit slower when it comes to technical talk :P
 
Totally agree :) the trouble with you engineers though is you start talking as if us mere mortals understand and (as @Greenoneten will tell you) some of us (me!) are abit slower when it comes to technical talk :P

OK Short version of the technical post is:
More current = Batteries charge upto 70% level faster then take time to get to 100%; Even 4 or 5 times the C rating will be ok but it does wear out batteries MUCH faster (Used in emergencies and will kill the cells in about 10 or 20 percent of the normal number of charge cycles)
More voltage = Charge Li Ion Batteries to more than 4.3v for an extended period and they get unstable and go boom...
 
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OK Short version of the technical post is:
More current = Batteries charge upto 70% level faster then take time to get to 100%; Even 4 or 5 times the C rating will be ok but it does wear out batteries MUCH faster (Used in emergencies and will kill the cells in about 10 or 20 percent of the normal number of charge cycles)
More voltage = Charge Li Ion Batteries to more than 4.3v for an extended period and they get unstable and go boom...

And more :(

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...te-explosion-in-east-london-flat-9262038.html
 
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