I can't believe I've seen this...

[Dr Manhattan]

Basically, the short version is that there will be a 2 tier system.

Ecigs or liquids higher than 20mg/ml will need a medicinal license.

For ecigs / liquids less than this than this they are bringing in a whole host of requirements, ( stupid stuff like tanks can't hold more than 2mls of liquid and eliquid must be sold in no more than 10ml bottles.) Its also not clear yet how stringently the rest of the new EU rules will be applied in the U.K. Worst case scenario is that it wipes out all current ecig products off the market. Best case, we carry on but have to abide by some stupid rules.

What I do know is there is no way they are taking off me what I have already legally bought

Damn right! Even if this happens, surely the products will still exist, just means we'll have to get them elsewhere probably just directly from China? I hate to think what it would mean for the future development of the products we use today, I don't even get why they'd limit the capacity, it just means we have to fill it up more, higher capacity doesn't mean more danger?

I'm still hopeful more honest studies carried up by reputable sources and organisation between now and then will put an end to these stupid plans, people group together and snap back at the crooks pushing all of this unjust, unproven and untue propaganda BS

 

[remnant]

Forty percent, huh? I wonder if by any chance this is the same forty percent that still thinks that nicotine is carcinogenic - which in turn makes me wonder what they think the nicotine in the NRTs they're peddling does.

Bottom line, forty percent of doctors believe, or pretend to believe, whatever the fuck the Pharmaceutical industry tells the Department of Health to tell them, the doctors, what to believe. I suppose we should be glad that it's only forty percent...

 

[Richie Van Vapes]

I'm still hopeful more honest studies carried up by reputable sources and organisation between now and then will put an end to these stupid plans, people group together and snap back at the crooks pushing all of this unjust, unproven and untue propaganda BS

Those crooks being the government and the cig manufacturers, it must be them putting out this crap. As for the article they claim 40% of docs but only seem to have one commenting in the article. They may even have made that figure up. I wouldn't put anything past them. In fact I bet they found that doc felt this way and had a brief chat with him, made up a number and printed the article. He didn't say much anyway and the 'other doctors' they quoted are from an online Dr's site. I quote 'they (who exactly are they?) say vapours risk increasing their intake of nicotine because of the temptation of nicotine and because they're cheaper than tobacco". Cheaper? Well not for me it isn't with all the kit I buy and flavours etc!

Forty percent, huh? I wonder if by any chance this is the same forty percent that still thinks that nicotine is carcinogenic - which in turn makes me wonder what they think the nicotine in the NRTs they're peddling does.

Bottom line, forty percent of doctors believe, or pretend to believe, whatever the fuck the Pharmaceutical industry tells the Department of Health to tell them, the doctors, what to believe. I suppose we should be glad that it's only forty percent...

Brilliantly said, I couldn't add a thing to that. Especially the bolded bit.

 

[Gonloopy]

Damn right! Even if this happens, surely the products will still exist, just means we'll have to get them elsewhere probably just directly from China? I hate to think what it would mean for the future development of the products we use today, I don't even get why they'd limit the capacity, it just means we have to fill it up more, higher capacity doesn't mean more danger?

I'm still hopeful more honest studies carried up by reputable sources and organisation between now and then will put an end to these stupid plans, people group together and snap back at the crooks pushing all of this unjust, unproven and untue propaganda BS

Yes I suppose we still could from china, but won't be legal


And you are absolutely right about new products. Over regulation will just strangle innovation

I think the vaping community has so much to be proud of though in terms of coming together and making our voice heard. I get the distinct feeling that the tide is beginning to turn in our favour.

Just 18 months ago, things looked a whole lot worse. We genuinely thought we were going to lose the TPD and vaping would be as medicinalised and access to them and products as nondescript as using NRT.
Soo ...some battles have been won/ drawn but still some big ones to come. Namely how the eu guidance will be applied in the uk . We still don't know

 

[Dr Manhattan]

Yes I suppose we still could from china, but won't be legal

Well fake designer and jewellery is illegal too but little wannabe gangsters around my area don't seem to struggle getting their hands on crappy fake rolex watches and gucci belts lol

And you are absolutely right about new products. Over regulation will just strangle innovation

I think the vaping community has so much to be proud of though in terms of coming together and making our voice heard. I get the distinct feeling that the tide is beginning to turn in our favour.

Just 18 months ago, things looked a whole lot worse. We genuinely thought we were going to lose the TPD and vaping would be as medicinalised and access to them and products as nondescript as using NRT.
Soo ...some battles have been won/ drawn but still some big ones to come. Namely how the eu guidance will be applied in the uk . We still don't know

Agree with all of that, the sense of community among vapors is brilliant and definitely one of our biggest strengths in fighting this thing. There must be many people in positions of authority who've already or will soon try vaping, and fight for fair regulations too. Whatever happens, i'll still do whatever it takes to source the devices I want, and try to help as many vapers as i can do the same as well

 

[Huggett]

Well fake designer and jewellery is illegal too but little wannabe gangsters around my area don't seem to struggle getting their hands on crappy fake rolex watches and gucci belts lol

Agreed :lol:

Knuckle dusters, balisongs, CS gas, stunguns etc all illegal yet come from China

 

[Fubar1977]

40% of how many though?

They won`t have asked every single GP in the country.

Without know the sample size the 40% figure is a bit misleading and, even if it is stated I`d be willing to bet the number of GP`s actually questioned by this survey is a pretty small number of the total.

It was recently pointed out in proper, scientific studies that Nicotine liquid at normal vaping strength is about as toxic as washing up liquid and I don`t see any calls to restrict the container size of that, or much more hazardous products like household bleach to only be sold in 10ml bottles, for example.

Normal potentially hazardous products can quite easily be marketed safely with appropriate warning labels and, if necessary, childproof caps.
I see no current requirement for a leak-free dispensing method for Bleach, so why would Nic liquid need one?

Again I don`t have the figures immediately to hand but in 2013 in the US more people were harmed by Houseplants than Nicotine and the FDA received far more calls about Toothpaste poisoning (whatever the hell that is) than Nicotine.

 

[kernowmike]

Just looking through the paper this morning and I found this incredible article stating 40% of GP's want Ecigs regulated. Well for starters that's a minority.

"Ecigs need to be regulated like a medicine and then be made into a pharmacy only product"

Great news for the government and the ciggy manufacturers.

"This would bring them in line with nicotine replacement products"

Ok, but then you say...

"Since ecigs are not regulated as medicines (medicine? when the f*** was it a medicine?) we do not know exactly what is in them apart from nicotine"

Now hang on a second. This sounds like even 0% nicotine is going to be for the chop. Make your minds up docs, is this an anti nicotine crusade or an anti ecig altogther crusade?

They've been about for years and they don't know what's in them? How can they want them to be a medicine then? Don't doctors know how to use Google?

Anyway this will make them more "safe and effective" - Effective? They're effective now.

Then they have a little box lauding the restaurant that banned smoking outside saying saying the vast majority want a smoke free environment. Yes and what is the relevance to vaping?

Can a doctor please tell me how an ecig is a medicine because it has nicotine in it and a fag isn't, even though it too has nicotine, along with benzene, cadmium, polonium and all that other crap?

View attachment 30378

perhaps these faceless characters and the newspaper in question should be invited to join POTV and post their views for the vaping community to consider respond and educate them with the FACTS...... unfortunately I think pigs will fly before that happens!!

Mike

 

[Gonloopy]

40% of how many though?

They won`t have asked every single GP in the country.

Without know the sample size the 40% figure is a bit misleading and, even if it is stated I`d be willing to bet the number of GP`s actually questioned by this survey is a pretty small number of the total.

It was recently pointed out in proper, scientific studies that Nicotine liquid at normal vaping strength is about as toxic as washing up liquid and I don`t see any calls to restrict the container size of that, or much more hazardous products like household bleach to only be sold in 10ml bottles, for example.

Normal potentially hazardous products can quite easily be marketed safely with appropriate warning labels and, if necessary, childproof caps.
I see no current requirement for a leak-free dispensing method for Bleach, so why would Nic liquid need one?

Again I don`t have the figures immediately to hand but in 2013 in the US more people were harmed by Houseplants than Nicotine and the FDA received far more calls about Toothpaste poisoning (whatever the hell that is) than Nicotine.

Couldnt agree reed with you more , in terms of sample size and in terms of hazardous products. Unfortunately though it's what we've signed up to, and the uk won't back out of the TPD , as it makes them look soft on smoking. ( for those that are not aware they dealt with smoking and ecigs in the one Bill)

 

[Fubar1977]

Couldnt agree reed with you more , in terms of sample size and in terms of hazardous products. Unfortunately though it's what we've signed up to, and the uk won't back out of the TPD , as it makes them look soft on smoking. ( for those that are not aware they dealt with smoking and ecigs in the one Bill)

Sadly, yes we would appear to be stuck with it.
The glimmer of hope, for me, though is that article 20 is, in many ways so badly written with so many holes and inaccuracies that the actual, legal implementation of it could prove tricky for them.

I have felt for a while now that the best way of defeating this now is via the courts rather than attempting to affect the legislation process directly in Brussells as they have made clear that they are not willing to listen to their citizens or to listen to strong scientific evidence that their approach is wrong.

Quite who by, or how this legal challenge should be taken I am not sure but I feel it is now the best bet for us.
Until they attempt to actually enforce these regulations at national level though there is little that can be done.

There may be interesting and turbulent times ahead for vapers in the EU.

I have read that one of the big Tobacco companies is already looking at a legal challenge against several aspects of the TPD as well, not that I am any great fan of the Tobacco industry either.