Leave smokers alone

[gords1001]

I believe if you are granted permission, you have permission. ....I always without fail ask, if the answer is no, its no, no problem, I just dobt vape. I've never once had the answer yes you can vape, but only a little bit......

Its not about militant attitude, its simply about exercising the permission that has been granted.

What are you suggesting landlords who grant permission do? Check your mods at the door? Ban drippers? Ask you to blow a cloud in a bottle so they can measure the volume and density of vape? Yes you can vape, but no aniseed flavours? Only juices over 70% pg?


No, they either grant permission or they do not, they dont list a set of conditions and I dont believe they will, I've also found that when there is a problem in a pub, say a rowdy group for example, they tend to ask you to calm down before they evict potential revenue from the premises, why should they adopt a different attitude with vaping? I'm sure that if tgere was an issue, the first thing they would do is ask you not to blow such big clouds, if you were infact doing that in the first place, personally, I tend to take a bottom coil tank rather than a dripper, its just more convenient, on the odd occasion I do get to go out, I have two toddlers so trips to the pub are very few and far between. So few and far between, I'm certainly not going to buy an ego for such an occasion, I'll stick to the devices I have that work for me.

 

[The Artful Regster]

The simple solution is to allow chuffing e-cigs that look like cigarettes, but ban anything fancy - the simpler solution of course is to make anyone smoking any vapour producing equipment stand outside with the smokers. On first glance it seems as though what is being proposed is that when somebody tells you it's cool to smoke in their car that you can whip out a hookah pipe and go crazy. But then that would be idiotic, so maybe I'm missing something. Does "help yourself" and a gesture to the fridge mean that permission has been granted to empty the contents into bags or to do what is socially acceptable and have some snacks?

In any case there are simple solutions that rely on vapours to cause problems for them to come into existence. Not The Man, not 'them' but us.

As to the comment about examining our mindsets... I've always been a smoker that never liked either my own, or other peoples second hand smoke. Whether it be a shard of smoke stabbing me in the eye or just an overly smoky room... I just don't like it. Nobody had to brainwash me into not liking my eyeballs getting knifed or the feeling of going to sleep in a smouldering warehouse with the accompanying "I've just slept in a smouldering warehouse" feeling in my morning chest. I like that there is no smoking in restaurants but would like to have the permission to vape in them all.

Clearly..... clearly the chances of that happening will be diminished the more patrons are put off by people vaping inconsiderately because there is actually a line that can be crossed with just about everything in life. Slowly slowly, catchy monkey.

 

[steffijade]

Sorry, but I disagree.

The antis are already engaged in underhand tactics, trying to literally tar vaping with the same brush as smoking.

The days when we could slip under their radar and that of the public at large are over. We have entered an new phase now, where we will have to fight for our rights or have them regulated away from us. Clive Bates knows this and by god, he ought to given his former position. He knows the kind of tactics that we will be up against and that's why he's encouraging us to fight.

I repeat, WHO is going to educate the public if we don't? They are being fed lies and misinformation to try and turn public opinion against us, as if it's not bad enough that the public are already pre-programmed to view anything that even resembles smoking as aberrant.

Despite the fact that you say you didn't need brainwashing, you have still have been, whether you believe it or not. The fact that you even view 'blowing clouds' to be excessive betrays that. Patrons are banning vaping not because people are using any particular kind of device, they are banning it through knee jerk reactions to the lies and misinformation they are being fed in the media PLUS the pre existing programming that teaches them that smoking or anything that resembles it is aberrant.

We need to stand up and be counted here, while we still have the chance, not be apologists, ashamed of what we are doing and feeling like we are somehow infringing on other peoples freedoms... we aren't, and the public NEED to learn this. They won't learn this if we let ourselves be cowed into believing that we're still smokers, even if only through resemblance.

Clive says we have to fight and he's right... but we also need to let go of the submissive, pandering attitudes, because if we don't, then we've already lost.

THAT is what's clear to me.

I've heard folk say before that it's the cloud chasers who screw it up for 'innocent' or 'normal' vapers, but to my mind the inverse is actually true. It's those that are content to capitulate and conform to their pre-programmed negative self perceptions that are screwing it up. THEY are the one's with the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.. content to be shepherded into conformity as long as their own needs are met.

If they want to give in and conform to accepted social norms instead of having the guts to actually affect change in those perceptions, then that's their perogative, but not all of us are going to give in so easily. Some of us ARE willing to stand up and be counted.

 

[carcosa]

Let's get back to basics here. What is an "e-cig" for? To me it's a device which delivers nicotine to my body in as safe a manner as I know how. I don't need to generate a billowing bank of fog to do it. Neither does anyone else. "Cloud chasing" is starting to become a parody of vaping. It's excessive, unnecessary (even posdibly dangerous,) and sends the wrong message to non-vapers. Anyone doing so in public is doing a disservice to vaping.

Okay. Bring on the hate.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Planet of the Vapes mobile app

 

[steffijade]

Let's get back to basics here. What is an "e-cig" for? To me it's a device which delivers nicotine to my body in as safe a manner as I know how. I don't need to generate a billowing bank of fog to do it. Neither does anyone else. "Cloud chasing" is starting to become a parody of vaping. It's excessive, unnecessary (even posdibly dangerous,) and sends the wrong message to non-vapers. Anyone doing so in public is doing a disservice to vaping.

Okay. Bring on the hate.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Planet of the Vapes mobile app

It's not the 'wrong' message at all.. it's just someone engaging in a legal activity in an establishment where they have been given permission to do so.

Again with the 'excessive'. Who are you to judge what anyone wants or needs from their vape? That's a decision for the individual... they will know what works for them and what doesn't and also again, the fact that you would even deem it to be 'excessive' betrays your conditioning.

As to it being 'possibly dangerous', I presume you are referring to vapers who use mech/sub ohm set ups? Just an fyi.. you don't need to use mech/sub ohm to 'chase clouds', you can do it with a high VG ratio juice and a bog standard VV/VW device. Also, if it presents any danger, that danger is to the user themselves and if they CHOOSE to take that 'risk' then that's entirely THEIR choice and I don't see why they should need to limit or censor their CHOSEN method, just because it doesn't fit in with the anti smoking lobby's denormalisation schtick.

It's not sending the 'wrong' message to non vapers at all. The message it sends to non vapers is that they are engaged in a legal activity, with permission from the establishment's owner and that they are not afraid or ashamed to be seen doing so and imho, the message that we are unashamed should be hammered home in the same way as the anti smokers have hammered home their denormalisation propaganda. We need to normalise vaping so that people see it as being acceptable and harmless to those around us and not some toxic death cloud, which is exactly what the anti smoking lobby want the public to think and to apply their denormalisation principle to vaping (with no justification).

In actual fact, anyone who is seen to be vaping (cloud chaser or otherwise) is raising the profile of vaping and normalising it (which is the first step towards undoing the toxic death cloud, denormalisation bullshit).

I suppose I could 'bring on the hate', but personally, I think you'd benefit more from a little education as to what has been happening to vaping and how it's perception by the non vaping public is being subverted by those who want it to be regarded with the same vitriolic intolerance that smoking is.

If we accept the trap of falling in line with the viewpoint that vaping is the same as smoking and that we should be ashamed and reluctant to use our preferred set ups, then the antis have already won.

Rather than meekly accepting these unnecessary comparisons to smoking, the difference needs to be emphasised.

 

[gords1001]

I find it insulting that you assume because some people choose to cloud chase, they will do all the time, most I've encountered are extremely considerate, as for dangerous, the cloud chasers are the ones who worry me the least - they know every single facet of their equipment, I find the people who will buy any old cheap gear because its cheap far more woerying simply because they choose to remain ignorant of their equipment.

 

[clint]

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

It's excessive, unnecessary (even posdibly dangerous,) and sends the wrong message to non-vapers. Anyone doing so in public is doing a disservice to vaping.

You lost me at "possibly dangerous".... You do know about ALL the research done on "second hand vape" right? 2nd hand harm...literally doesn't exist and most certainly not on any level close to what comes out of car exhausts or cigarettes.


ANYWAYS. TO EACH THEIR OWN.


This thread really has fuck all to do with "cloud chasing" or the rights and wrongs of what vaping users do or dont do.



Sending VAPERS out to VAPE with SMOKERS who SMOKE is about as daft as running up a down escalator and wondering why you arent getting anywhere.


OH and one more thing... Vaping is NOT smoking, so stop pretending it's the same thing or even similar to smoking. Once anyone can do that, they can see how horribly smokers and NOW vapers are being demonized because of the SMOKING thought process!

 

[The Artful Regster]

Sending VAPERS out to VAPE with SMOKERS who SMOKE is about as daft as running up a down escalator and wondering why you arent getting anywhere.

Not really. Somebody who insists of blowing large clouds of annoying washing up liquid bubbles would find themselves doing it outside pretty rapidly in many a place too if it was annoying people. There are probably no health risks attached to blowing bubbles with their innocuous Fairy chemistry either, although long term research has not been carried out on them so we cannot be certain until ever statistically malleable epidemiological studies and trials limited in conclusiveness by human rights laws have been carried out. [/ironic][/supportive_of_vaping].

I do admit the 'smoking' misnomer wasn't accurate or helpful, but then again I am a new vaper so the parlance I use is probably more in line with the general public on this issue than yours might be. 'Smoking' alcohol or heroin is vaping too, but people do tend to just call inhaling clouds of stuff 'smoking', for better or for worse... although I am sure we can all agree that these particular vaping analogies aren't things we want to carry forward in any argument about our kind of Vaping. But yes, sending vapers out to vape along with the smokers might be stupid in your eyes but not in the mind of a restaurant manager who has taken a booking for a table of 10 vapers who are annoying the crap out of everyone else after a few sherbets. Remembering we are not talking about an odourless, invisible thing here.

So the opportunity to educate is not in the form of proudly billowing (unless you are outside with the smokers), but to have everybody in that restaurant aware that that particular table was packed with people vaping and not perceive to have had their night affected negatively (because they and I are brainwashed etc etc). Particularly whilst the 'safety debate' PR campaign is in effect.

This discussion has everything to do with the OP too, because if an influential person or table of people get offended by an inconsiderate vaper or few then this could indeed influence their outlook.

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

Long Term in the medical field equals "longer than 12 months" There are plenty of studies out there that hold evidence of "Long Term" use as well as millions of surviving vapers world wide who have suffered no ill health effects from vaping.

If I want to blow clouds of vapour, I am going to. As far as I am concerned, I am not ashamed to be a vaper and if my clouds attract the attention, negative or not, it attracted SOME ONE's attention which means someons going to eventually ask questions which will hopefully bring them here where they can learn about vaping and not be made to feel like the lepers of society because they are no longer smokers, but proud ex smokers



I'll do what I have done for the last two years and not hide my vaper, create discussion and help inform people of the facts about ecigs and not some ill perceived smoking thought process bullshit