Market Stagnation

[zouzounaki]

I have , but no longer use tobacco as in ciggies, so again no comparison to be made in relation to the nicotine in eliquid...stay on subject matter....or we will all be crack heads and chemical brothers.

Of corse there is a comparison, we’re talking about the two available forms of nicotine and how they are absorbed, it’s irrelevant if it comes from tobacco, eliquid or aubergines. And where do you think the nic in eliquid comes from?

 

[Rickster]

Of corse there is a comparison, we’re talking about the two available forms of nicotine and how they are absorbed, it’s irrelevant if it comes from tobacco, eliquid or aubergines. And where do you think the nic in eliquid comes from?

indeed we are , but you went off on a tangent talking about crack cocaine and additives added to tobacco, none of which to my knowledge is relevant to eilquid nic

 

[zouzounaki]

Of course it is. If an additive is added to tobacco to convert the nicotine in the tobacco leaves from nicotine salt to freebase, to ostensibly make them more addictive, how is that not relevant to a discussion about nicotine salt and freebase nicotine in eliquid, and which is more addictive/more easily absorbed than the other, especially given the point I was trying to make?

 

[jsixtysix]

Piqued my interest, found this explanation - https://www.ruthlessvapor.com/blogs...s-freebase-why-nicotine-salt-is-the-new-craze

From a vaping perspective, the difference between freebase nicotine and nicotine salt is a matter of how it affects your vaping experience.

One noticeable difference is the harshness induced by higher nicotine levels. Freebase nicotine has a higher pH level which affects the alkalinity. What this does is that it makes freebase e-liquid taste harsher as you climb the nicotine ladder. Whereas, salt nicotine have a lower alkalinity due to the benzoic acid which gives you a reportedly smoother throat hit and makes vaping at 50 mg nicotine bearable.

The second difference is how the two travel through your body. Even though nicotine salts are known to be not the most effective way to deliver nicotine, Pax Labs have supposedly figured out a way to make it more effective than freebase nicotine. This is due to the benzoic acid added to the salt nicotine as the nicotine becomes much more readily available and more effective than traditional freebased e-liquids.

 

[Rickster]

If as you state they are adding additives to salt or freebase to make our nicotine that we use in eliquid more addictive, then we need to know.

 

[Rickster]

Piqued my interest, found this explanation - https://www.ruthlessvapor.com/blogs...s-freebase-why-nicotine-salt-is-the-new-craze

From a vaping perspective, the difference between freebase nicotine and nicotine salt is a matter of how it affects your vaping experience.

One noticeable difference is the harshness induced by higher nicotine levels. Freebase nicotine has a higher pH level which affects the alkalinity. What this does is that it makes freebase e-liquid taste harsher as you climb the nicotine ladder. Whereas, salt nicotine have a lower alkalinity due to the benzoic acid which gives you a reportedly smoother throat hit and makes vaping at 50 mg nicotine bearable.

The second difference is how the two travel through your body. Even though nicotine salts are known to be not the most effective way to deliver nicotine, Pax Labs have supposedly figured out a way to make it more effective than freebase nicotine. This is due to the benzoic acid added to the salt nicotine as the nicotine becomes much more readily available and more effective than traditional freebased e-liquids.

So looks like they are adding stuff to salts....to make it more "effective" or bearable at high mg levels.

Higher Nicotine Levels - This is a huge step for the vaping community since the higher nicotine levels and the instant rush you get from nicotine salts will help immensely in quitting cigarettes. Some may argue that nic salts are more effective in fighting cravings than the other devices in the market.

Fair enough, but I would be in danger of chasing the rush.

 

[Rickster]

Piqued my interest, found this explanation - https://www.ruthlessvapor.com/blogs...s-freebase-why-nicotine-salt-is-the-new-craze

From a vaping perspective, the difference between freebase nicotine and nicotine salt is a matter of how it affects your vaping experience.

One noticeable difference is the harshness induced by higher nicotine levels. Freebase nicotine has a higher pH level which affects the alkalinity. What this does is that it makes freebase e-liquid taste harsher as you climb the nicotine ladder. Whereas, salt nicotine have a lower alkalinity due to the benzoic acid which gives you a reportedly smoother throat hit and makes vaping at 50 mg nicotine bearable.

The second difference is how the two travel through your body. Even though nicotine salts are known to be not the most effective way to deliver nicotine, Pax Labs have supposedly figured out a way to make it more effective than freebase nicotine. This is due to the benzoic acid added to the salt nicotine as the nicotine becomes much more readily available and more effective than traditional freebased e-liquids.

Interesting read

 

[zouzounaki]

So looks like they are adding stuff to salts....to make it more "effective" or bearable at high mg levels....wonder why

No, they are using benzoic acid to create a chemical reaction that turns the freebase nicotine into salt nicotine. They are two different forms of nicotine. The freebase nicotine reacts with the benzoic acid to form nicotine benzoate, I believe. This is a known fact, they’re not trying to hide this.

 

[Colonelboom]

As I sit here vaping on some wonderful 55mg nicotine salt E-Liquid (from the US I might add), I can't help thinking of the juice wars of 2014/2015, where forums were populated with arguments over whether US made or UK made E-liquid was better.

These days it's pretty clear- UK made is just as good, if not better than US made juice.

However there is a section of the market where it's pretty clear that the US leads the way- and that is the nic salt market.

Every day across social media I (jealously) see new ranges of nic salts shown off and handchecked, with all the big names now on board such as Ripe Vapes and Charlie Noble to name but a few. The JUUL is currently the number one top selling e-cigarette product in North America and nic salt juices sell like the proverbial hotcakes. I look on jealously and constantly check how much it will cost me to ship them over, whether any of my US/Canada based mates can ship me any over or if I have anyone I know on a business trip/holiday there, whether anyone is up for a group buy or whether it's just not cost effective for me to bother. Three quarters of the time, it's the latter.

The UK market? Well since Element NS20 and Dr Salt came to market last year there have been but a handful of other new ranges released. It's a trickle compared to the absolute flood in the US. It's clear there's a big demand over here for nic salt liquid, but little to choose from. I'd half expected the UK nic salt market to be burgeoning by now, but it's clear that it's not happening.

What have we got to blame?

Oh yes, that wonderful piece of legislation known as the TPD and the draconian 20mg limit on nicotine strengths and the idiotic 10ml limit on nicotine containing e-liquid.

Can't blame the manufacturers though, they have got a real risk on their hands spending thousands on compliance just to bring their products to market- and then of course they also have to weigh up whether it's worth the risk. Nic salt works best at concentrations of 30mg and above- which of course is off limits to the market here unless imported privately (at your own risk).

It's pretty clear though that the UK market has a long way to go before it even catches up to the US market in terms of nic salt liquid, and I only hope (probably in vain) that we will see some of the new and exciting US based ranges over here, or even better- some new UK made top quality nic salts.

And I can only hope the ridiculous 20mg and 10ml limits are lifted over the next 18 months, and the big players from the US market enter the fray over here- then hopefully the market will really take off...

I'd love nothing more than to offer our flavours in salt based higher strength. As you said though it's the 20mg cap that puts us out of the picture of doing something cool with it though as well as the current prohibitive cost of the salt based nicotine compared to freebase - sales on TPD compliant 10ml bottles are stagnant and most are having to drop prices to try and sell theirs so adding an addition 50% premium to the nicotine base AND having to use more for higher strength is a bonkers prospect when we just don't know if it will sell or sit on shelves.

In most cases such as ours, we have to carry a certain level of stock to supply wholesales when they come in, manufacturing a little as a test isn't really an option for us so we would need a big enough batch to fulfil wholesale if that came in.

It's a bit like wiping your arse with one hand, trying to work with the rules of the TPD and stay innovative in this country as it stands. Slow and tedious.

 

[dw1986]

I'd love nothing more than to offer our flavours in salt based higher strength. As you said though it's the 20mg cap that puts us out of the picture of doing something cool with it though as well as the current prohibitive cost of the salt based nicotine compared to freebase - sales on TPD compliant 10ml bottles are stagnant and most are having to drop prices to try and sell theirs so adding an addition 50% premium to the nicotine base AND having to use more for higher strength is a bonkers prospect when we just don't know if it will sell or sit on shelves.

In most cases such as ours, we have to carry a certain level of stock to supply wholesales when they come in, manufacturing a little as a test isn't really an option for us so we would need a big enough batch to fulfil wholesale if that came in.

It's a bit like wiping your arse with one hand, trying to work with the rules of the TPD and stay innovative in this country as it stands. Slow and tedious.

I would absolutely love to see a Colonel Booms nic salt range- that would absolutely blow everything on the market out of the water. My ADVs would be sorted for sure- I'd just have to make do with 20mg in the meantime

There's definitely a huge gap in the market, but I fully understand your standpoint in relation to the cost of salt based nic and the testing costs too. This is the exact problem every other manufacturer is having right now.