New vendor wanting to say hello!

[MrTeaTime]

Hi,

Sorry for the late reply, juggling a family as well as co-running things means I unfortunately can't respond as fast as I would like outside business hours. You all raise absolutely reasonable expectations and completely valid points and I will try and address them to the best of my ability.

In regards to the clean room, I don't feel comfortable posting pictures of a work in progress as that may reflect poorly on the business in the future. We have what we feel is a great product produced to the highest standards within our means, however we fully accept that our word is not enough for many of you. That is completely fair and we completely understand that position. We fully accept that some people are wary of buying from new vendors and we think that is a sensible approach to take. We hope that over time we can convince you otherwise, but we are still learning as we go and those valid arguments are being heard loud and clear.

I wish we had the demand to need a bathtub(!) to brew in, but the reality is we are working in extremely small quantities at the moment and a fully furbished clean room is simply outwith our financial means. As some of you may know from personal experience, many businesses at the beginning are at the mercy of cash-flow and we are no exception. We are doing this from our own pockets and those pockets are somewhat modest. None the less, our first and highest priority is to ensure that every bottle we make is made in a clean and safe environment.

In regards to VAT, we will amend the website as soon as possible to make it clear that the VAT is included in the price. We are not VAT registered (as we don't qualify for that yet) so that will not appear anywhere on the site for the foreseeable future.

I feel the conversation has taken a negative tone somewhat in this thread so I will stop responding for the time being until we can clear up the issues raised. We genuinely appreciate all the feedback, positive and negative and will try our best to come back with answers and amendments where we can. This is our first time running a business and clearly that is showing right now. For the time being I will leave PR to my partner, as obviously it is not my forte!

Thanks!

Oh dear.....another “victim”

Look, I have nothing against you personally, however, if you had done your research into becoming a juice manufacturer (which you mentioned in an earlier post) then you would realise a couple of things, namely the fact that you should at least have a clean room set up.....

Like I said in an earlier post, other vendors have had to invest there life savings or borrow heavily to make sure that they are up to standard, and that’s without the guys that have gone full TPD compliant who have spent tens of thousands of pounds to put there juice through.

Even if you don’t put your juices through to be TPD compliant, then at least get them lab tested for nasties, as a lot of reputable juice producers have had to do to stay in business and sell to us....

I’m sorry, but I call bullshit when you say that your “not comfortable” showing where you actually make your juices. If I’m honest I would actually think that your mixing in your kitchen.

I’m sorry if this sounds like I’m being nasty, but if I was a juice producer, I would think that you were taking the piss....because that’s what it sounds like to me.

If you prove me wrong then that’s absolutely fine, and I have no problem with that at all, but please don’t come on here and insult my or anyone else’s intelligence and think that by offering a discount code is going to make it all go away....

Like I said, it’s not me being nasty or harsh, but at least have the decency to honest about what your doing if you wish to sell to me or anybody else

 

[JustDave]

Oh dear.....another “victim”

Look, I have nothing against you personally, however, if you had done your research into becoming a juice manufacturer (which you mentioned in an earlier post) then you would realise a couple of things, namely the fact that you should at least have a clean room set up.....

Like I said in an earlier post, other vendors have had to invest there life savings or borrow heavily to make sure that they are up to standard, and that’s without the guys that have gone full TPD compliant who have spent tens of thousands of pounds to put there juice through.

Even if you don’t put your juices through to be TPD compliant, then at least get them lab tested for nasties, as a lot of reputable juice producers have had to do to stay in business and sell to us....

I’m sorry, but I call bullshit when you say that your “not comfortable” showing where you actually make your juices. If I’m honest I would actually think that your mixing in your kitchen.

I’m sorry if this sounds like I’m being nasty, but if I was a juice producer, I would think that you were taking the piss....because that’s what it sounds like to me.

If you prove me wrong then that’s absolutely fine, and I have no problem with that at all, but please don’t come on here and insult my or anyone else’s intelligence and think that by offering a discount code is going to make it all go away....

Like I said, it’s not me being nasty or harsh, but at least have the decency to honest about what your doing if you wish to sell to me or anybody else

Seriously dude, you are out of order here.

Everyone starts somewhere and while I am as keen as anyone to make sure that things are legit, this is looking like a personal attack.

There are plenty of vendors going down the short fill route and whatever they tell you or don’t, only they know what processes they have gone through. I can assure you that some of the big names have certainly not gone through any kind of testing, simply because the law doesn’t say that they have to.

You can call out the people who don’t go through testing as much as you like, but even those who get their flavours tested are only going half arsed compared to those that have gone full TPD. (Not a dig at anyone by the way).

You are pulling up costs for testing but they are massively less than those that have done the full deal.

 

[MrTeaTime]

Seriously dude, you are out of order here.

Everyone starts somewhere and while I am as keen as anyone to make sure that things are legit, this is looking like a personal attack.

There are plenty of vendors going down the short fill route and whatever they tell you or don’t, only they know what processes they have gone through. I can assure you that some of the big names have certainly not gone through any kind of testing, simply because the law doesn’t say that they have to.

You can call out the people who don’t go through testing as much as you like, but even those who get their flavours tested are only going half arsed compared to those that have gone full TPD. (Not a dig at anyone by the way).

You are pulling up costs for testing but they are massively less than those that have done the full deal.

Dave, this isn’t a personal attack, far from it....

So asking a vendor (who doesn’t have vendor status in here) about clean rooms and then comes up with an excuse that he’s not comfortable showing pics is a personal attack?

I know that everyone has to start somewhere but calling me out for asking the question? Really?

Dave, I respect you massively as a person but I think you have called this wrong....

If you wish to say I’m out of order as a mod, then it’s your prerogative to do something about it....I’m cool with that, but this is my opinion, and I think I’m entitled to that, and to ask that as a member on here who is (or was) a potential customer....

You know that this isn’t the first time that I’ve asked a vendor (or not a vendor in this case) about there clean rooms, so At least I’m consistent, and there is a thread somewhere on here that asked this very same question....

*edit*

And with regards to lab testing and TPD compliance, you’re right, the cost has come right down...so if you’re a start up then you have no real excuse.....

With regards to short fills, I have absolutely no problem at all what so ever with short fills, it’s the future (for now, or until the law changes) and I would encourage any vendor to explore this and exploit it

 

[Badboybez]

Dave, this isn’t a personal attack, far from it....

So asking a vendor (who doesn’t have vendor status in here) about clean rooms and then comes up with an excuse that he’s not comfortable showing pics is a personal attack?

I know that everyone has to start somewhere but calling me out for asking the question? Really?

Dave, I respect you massively as a person but I think you have called this wrong....

If you wish to say I’m out of order as a mod, then it’s your prerogative to do something about it....I’m cool with that, but this is my opinion, and I think I’m entitled to that, and to ask that as a member on here who is (or was) a potential customer....

You know that this isn’t the first time that I’ve asked a vendor (or not a vendor in this case) about there clean rooms, so At least I’m consistent, and there is a thread somewhere on here that asked this very same question....

*edit*

And with regards to lab testing and TPD compliance, you’re right, the cost has come right down...so if you’re a start up then you have no real excuse.....

With regards to short fills, I have absolutely no problem at all what so ever with short fills, it’s the future (for now, or until the law changes) and I would encourage any vendor to explore this and exploit it

I think this thread has gone a little over the top, as it progresses.

Photo's of their clean room for example.
Just because you post a photo of a clean room does not prove that all is above board.
I have worked in many clean rooms in the semiconductor business around the world, and most of them were dirtier than my house !
I could use a photo from one of these sites, superimpose a picture of me in one of my clean room full suits (i still have them), and put my company logo on the door.
Even though the place does not exist.

Testing is only legally required if you are mixing in nicotine.

For concentrates, shortfills, etc it is not required.

Lets give the guy some slack, everyone has to start somewhere.

Regards badboybez

 

[junglist]

Yeah but we all know where a lot of the juice makers out there came from - and some of the best UK companies started off mixing in their kitchens. You go to the extent of getting a clean room or even one of those little box thingies that you can post pics of and you could still mix having just scratched your arse or using a beaker that was swilled out in your toilet sink and dried off with the rag you just cleaned your dog bowl with.

The ISO lab thing, to me, is just a willy waver a lot of the time. I have been home mixing for a good year or two now and I do scratch my arse and then mix - remember that bottle of Boardwalk I sent you @MrTeaTime - the one that had a 'funny' aftertaste?

I think it's good to welcome new vendors, to support people who are trying to make a go of something rather than to chase them off the forum because they can't post a picture of their ISO 5 clean room or whatever.

Personally I want to see a new UK manufacturer come out who's USP is they mix in the nude, fully shaven so no pubes, and they mix the juice by holding a silver spoon between their butt cheeks wiggling it around.

You have to remember, the juice is vapourised at how ever many hundred degrees so you won't catch anything from it, any bacteria are frazzled by the heat.

 

[junglist]

And @EqualityLiquid - you don't need to mention that VAT is included as it isn't included as you are not VAT registered - so there is no VAT. The price us just the price and you only need to state VAT details when you are VAT registered!

 

[Badboybez]

And @EqualityLiquid - you don't need to mention that VAT is included as it isn't included as you are not VAT registered - so there is no VAT. The price us just the price and you only need to state VAT details when you are VAT registered!

Which at the moment I believe the threshold is £85 K

 

[KetracelWhite]

Well... this all got a bit....

 

[ZT]

As a mod

I would like to point out this thread has been reported more times than any other in recent history - slacken off lads, this is a new guy trying to set up a new business - and wether he shows any cleanroom picture or not, he is breaking no laws by not doing so. No cleanroom is required by law for 0mg, nor is any testing.

Now I know a lot of 0mg guys are now getting their juices tested and making in Cleanroom or Laminar flow environments (which is to be commended) , but I cant think of many that have done it off the bat. Most have run their companies for awhile to build up cash before they can do that. In fact .. im not sure I can think of any. Most have bought out a few juices to build up funds before going down a more linear process route.

we have all been there.


seriously .. the industry is pretty much on its arse at the minute, id desperately like to see vendors and users alike coming together to try to combat the shit storms that get thrown at us on a regular basis .. not brawl amongst ourselves about things that are not even a required legal thing.

 

[Simon G]

As a mod.