Raguri Rant - Sub Ohming and Newbies.

[gords1001]

There's been a couple of sub ohm related incidents. All down to user stupidity.

Its also important to point out that a .999999999999ohm coil is still sub ohm, but no one would bat an eyelid at firing it with an 18350 cell, nor should they, the issue is purely putting inappropriate builds on inappropriate equipment.

Regulated mods aren't a magic bullet either, particularly now with these high power mods available that are imo putting users at a risk they aren't aware of.

The whole power race is in my opinion, a dangerous step up for the industry as a whole.

I said, when the atlantis came out, that it was a bad idea, sub ohm/high power is a discipline. I still think that's true.

discipline oneself to do something) Train oneself to do something in a controlled and habitual way:
every month discipline yourself to go through the file


discipline - definition of discipline in English from the Oxford dictionary

Its not something that should be bought, its something that should be learnt and respected. Which is the focus of Raguri s rant, and i agree fully, that may sound hypocritical from someone who's running a build where the coils could be lower resistance than the other connections to the battery, but there's a reason I'm still able to type this with two hands whilst doing such stupid shit.

There's also a reason I'm doing something so stupid in the first place, I'm hoping to be able to guide people in how to do it more safely, rathee than repeatedly hearing "but pulse amps so its ok" from muppets who really don't have a clue.

There are plenty of knowledgeable people about, and there are plenty of people influential within the community that could and should speak up about learning your discipline before jumping in at the deep end.

 

[Phantom Diablo]

there will always in this worls be Darwin candidates. the risk we have is that the anti vape lobby will jump on the sub ohming and start heaping dangers and warnings left right and centre until they find some idiot who tried to make a 0.00001 coil with some rusty copper wire hooked up to a phase 3 generator and blew hes face off.
you could just as easily have the same argument over cheap imported ego sticks that idiots then leave plugged in overnight with an overpowered Ipad charger and set fire to there bedroom or stick there ecig ina pool of stale beer and plug in an inferior non compatible charger and almost blow up the local pub.

at least with alot of these sub ohm devices they come premade which eliminates a certain amount of the risks involved .

you could just as well easily argue against all the high powered mods out there now.. not so long ago 20 watts was... wow thats huge amount of power no one will need more than that.. then 30, 50, 100, and 100+ is now commonplace on the market. devices that list temps upto 900 degrees for christs sake.
again another issue for the anti vape community to jump on and start spouting about the particles of toxic crap thats created at such high temps and how we dont know what damage it will cause blah blah blah.

perosnally id rather see these sub ohm devices as they are rather than have some beginner go out and by a nice shiny mech mod, then stick in some cheap nasty ultrlite batteries and try and build themselves a coil with a bit of wire they found in the garage and end up blowing there hand off cos they havent got a clue .

 

[bishop]

perosnally id rather see these sub ohm devices as they are rather than have some beginner go out and by a nice shiny mech mod, then stick in some cheap nasty ultrlite batteries and try and build themselves a coil with a bit of wire they found in the garage and end up blowing there hand off cos they havent got a clue .

No doubt there are hundreds of people who watch one RipTrippers video then go and do exactly what you describe. They don't bother documenting their journey on forums like this, they just do it. They either get away with it or they blow their hands off but we'll never know because they probably go back to cigarettes as soon as they get out of hospital.

 

[scrumpox]

Well, I for one would love it if Rags turned from poacher into gamekeeper, we all have something to learn from a few well written pieces. Hope he can be persuaded by the powers in POTV towers to be constructive and educative with his rants.

Easier said than done though as there's potential for it to reek of hypocrisy and sound sanctimonious. I think he writes with some good humour.

What I see on this thread, and others, is people are very quick draw lines wherever they want them to be drawn, to justify their own actions on the back of minimal "homework" and use that to deny others their rights as adults to make their own choices. People in glass houses shouldn't throw around Darwin awards.

Life has given me some severe authority issues; I hate being told what I can and cannot do particularly when it's coming from someone not qualified to make that decision on my behalf. I appreciate having the time and space to make my own mistakes, it's often the best way to learn. I think steffijade has suggested the right approach - make people aware of the risks and let them decide for themselves.

 

[Macmagoo]

Raguri, everyone starts somewhere, just like you did. I think it would probably be better if you kept your condescending thoughts to yourself.

 

[Phantom Diablo]

one huge point that seems to have been entirely missed is that most 3rd gen vapers who have the experience and have been around vaping for a couple of years didnt have the choice 2 years ago so we had to cut our teeth on basic egos and cigalikes. there were no VV/VW mods ( or very few ) or they were in the realms of unafforable luxeries. then along came the likes of fasttech with there clones and affordable mechs and in the space of 6 months vaping went from a relatively new niche product by a small crod to a huge explosion of popularity that caught huge media attention everywhere.
We were given time to grow and learn about vaping, batteries, ohms law, micro and nano coils, and more. when i started just over two years ago you had RSST tanks with 4-5 wraps around steel mesh wicks.

so now today look at the market. more choice, bigger options, 100+ watts devices with built in batteries, sub ohms tanks with prebuilt coils.

so whats wrong with that.. is it being implied that every "noob" ( god i hate that fucking word its so immature ) is a thick shit with no common sense just becasue they want a quality product that pushes out some power and big clouds. so what if we had to learn from basic egos and work our way up to whats now become prettymuch common place. isnt that a sign of development and arent we the pioneers in the vaping world?

Are the likes of riptripper, pbsuardo, grimgreen et al, also the pioneers in bringing about the knowledge and experience and enjoyment of how vaping should be. shouldnt we encourage and instruct and teach new vapers and say yes thats a great first time device, but learn about it, watch videos, ask questions, seek the wealth of knowledge out there from expereienced vapers.. dont dismiss them as morons and idiots who "shouldnt be allowed".. what right does anyone have to say no you cant vape on that just because they are new to vaping.

we were all new once and its this kind of patronising BS to have a go at people wanting to try the new gear out that smacks of im better than you just because ive been vaping a couple of years that will put people off wanting to know more and take vaping to level they can enjoy.

 

[securityuniform]

In sdome ways it sounds a bit like when computers first came out. People tinkered and built their own set ups and it was a very small niche market. After a while pre-made stuff came out that was incredibly expensive and people jumped on anyone buying one for not knowing what was under the hood and saying they could have built it themselves for a fraction of the cost. I came into PC's with windows 3.1 and about 6 months later windows 95 came out which was revolutionary. I loved tinkering and putting new chips into my machine, and bigger hard drives, replacing the floppy with a cd rom etc. Lots of people just bought a PC and never opened the lid and looked at people like me when they went wrong. Fast forward twenty years and people are using beasts that could run a small country to look at cat videos, facebook and send e-mails. They don't care what is under the hood and just want it to work properly when they press the power button.

I think sub ohming is the same situation. People started vaping where there weren't the options available that there are now. You had to make everything yourselves and the safety risks that went with it were dreadfully high. Very clever foresighted people in China looked at the hobby and realised they could make a huge amount of money if they did some research and brought out lots of different devices that would do all the hard work for the user and remove most of the danger. So I can sit here now throwing large clouds from my Atlantis with stock 0.5ohm coil sitting on my istick knowing the chances of it blowing my hand off are pretty minimal. The hard work has been done already. First by the early pioneers in the hobby then by clever scientists and engineers who want my money.

There are a lot of different options available now all designed to be as safe as possible if you don't act like a twat and do things that the device isn't made to do. Need a battery? Get the correct one. Need wire and cotton? Get the correct sort. Like every piece of technology if you use the right things it won't bite you. I put unleaded petrol in my car because that's what the manufacturer tells me to do. I don't try to run it on lard, or water, or diesel just because I think I'm being clever and know more than the people who made the damned thing or want to use it and don't have the correct fuel on hand and think "fuck it that'll do". I'm sure the media will make a big thing about the accidents that are bound to happen in the next few years but if they put the emphasis on it being user twatness and not on us all taking our lives in our hands every time we pick up a vision spinner it can only be a good thing. Using chainsaws is fun and easy, but use them wrong and you are taking your fingers home in a ziplock baggie.

I'm new to vaping and love everything about it. I avoid the more complicated aspects of the hobby. I don't want to get into the whole nuts and bolts of everything to do with it. What I want is a pleasant fun alternative to smoking. I'm just not interested in how everything fits together and how ohms law affects this that and the other. I want to be able to pick up something off a shelf and know the hard work has been done for me. This forum has been amazing and invaluable to me as I've been able to ask questions and make informed decisions about something that is overwhelming and confusing. Most people coming in to vaping now are like me. They want to blow clouds, they want delicious juices, they want cute looking mods. They don't want to sit there with a lathe and build their equipment from scratch. That is a hobby in it's own right and will always be for the clever minority.

 

[Mawsley]

 

[securityuniform]

Please don't put those straight on, put them to a link with a warning. I'm aware of the dangers but I don't want to be ambushed by stuff like that. I won't watch medical dramas and they are fake. Putting those on public forums where you don't know who is looking at them is not a good thing to do, it just makes you look like a dick. The only thing worse would have been a "lol" afterwards.

 

[lemon22]

In sdome ways it sounds a bit like when computers first came out. People tinkered and built their own set ups and it was a very small niche market. After a while pre-made stuff came out that was incredibly expensive and people jumped on anyone buying one for not knowing what was under the hood and saying they could have built it themselves for a fraction of the cost. I came into PC's with windows 3.1 and about 6 months later windows 95 came out which was revolutionary. I loved tinkering and putting new chips into my machine, and bigger hard drives, replacing the floppy with a cd rom etc. Lots of people just bought a PC and never opened the lid and looked at people like me when they went wrong. Fast forward twenty years and people are using beasts that could run a small country to look at cat videos, facebook and send e-mails. They don't care what is under the hood and just want it to work properly when they press the power button.

Good analogy and makes the point well.

Tbh I think some are getting all het up here thinking this thread is about bashing people new to vaping and wanting clouds. I don't think this thread is about that. Maybe they should actually read the whole thread. These new sub ohm tanks will fit onto an ego battery. If it fits then it should work, that's what people will think, that's what I would have thought, n I aint too thick. It's just about getting the correct info out there so vapers are informed, simple as that. Yes I would totally agree that no one should begrudge that people new to vaping can get instant big clouds without much ground work, but I don't get the sense from this thread that that's what it's about at all. Good for them if they can get instant big clouds from there first setup. But there are still some things you should be aware of, so how can people slag people off who are helping people to vape safely. That kinda pisses me off. So, shut up wud yas.