The Sun has a dig at vaping again

[zouzounaki]

Without accusing anyone of being deliberately argumentative, I find t hard to believe that anyone really thinks we live in a world where the mainstream media would publish a balanced article and go into any detail about whether marketing aimed at children actually works. It seems incredibly naive in the extreme.

 

[Crewella]

I agree but I think the problem is we are working within an already set of established 'norms' in packaging, the people that design these e-liquid bottles and packaging know this, they either don't care or they are exploiting it.

take these 2 yogurts.. it's pretty obvious to everyone which is aimed at adults and which is aimed at children...

View attachment 175721 View attachment 175722

If your e-liquid bottle looks like the one of the left then you will be accused of marketing it to kids, because those are the all the signifiers used in marketing to children and signifiers that it is a 'children's product' .. we all know this without even thinking about it it's so ingrained. We also know that adults and children alike can enjoy both products. ... we also know that kids aren't rushing into tesco with their pocket money to buy yogurts. I don't think that changes anything though.

I'm just starting to feel that it should. Things DO change. 100 years ago pink was viewed as a masculine colour and pale blue was feminine, not so long ago a short skirt and low-cut top was viewed as 'asking for it'. If we all agree that it isn't actually aimed at kids .... then why are we so scared of the accusation? It will never change if people are too scared to say it how it is?

 

[ned]

I’m really not sure why we are debating this point. It has nothing to do with whether or not children are actually attracted to the childish marketing. The situation here is about vested interests who likely want to either eradicate vaping, or take it over completely, being given a means by which to do that, by the vaping industry itself.

A few years ago they wanted it gone as soon as they see it was not going away and their was big money to be made they decided they wanted it all to themselves or at least a very high percentage of it.

Will they get it? IMO sadly they probably will and I very much doubt theres anything that can stop it.

As for digging my own grave I'm getting burnt as far as I know lol

 

[Simon G]

I'm just starting to feel that it should. Things DO change. 100 years ago pink was viewed as a masculine colour and pale blue was feminine, not so long ago a short skirt and low-cut top was viewed as 'asking for it'. If we all agree that it isn't actually aimed at kids .... then why are we so scared of the accusation? It will never change if people are too scared to say it how it is?

Because I don't think it's defendable.

Let's pretend you've just brought out a juice line with very child-like packaging, childish names, bright colours, ponies and unicorns all that stuff. This would be my accusation to you....

The packaging isn't an accident, you've chosen to go down this route in a meeting, you've all sat around and asked yourselves "how should we market and package this" and you've decided to take all the things associated with Children's sweets, toys, kids food packets, kids drinks, cartoon characters, and to make it look as harmless and fun as possible.

You claim that your product is an adult product, you claim that it should be seen as a serious harm reduction tool for smokers, you claim that you are not trying to get underage teenage non-smokers interested in your products, yet you choose to go down this route .... why is that Ms @Crewella ?

Is it not true that your company cannot grow or survive without attracting new vapers? ... and is it not true that the best time to hook people into becoming long term users of your product is to get them at a young age?

Is it not the case that you chose this packaging to appeal to young non-smokers that you hope to lure into a lifetime of nicotine addiction, are you any better than the tobacconists that you claim to be saving people from? Please explain to us why you chose this ridiculous childish packaging with ponies and unicorns on over a more adult theme that would surely suit your product better? Do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

EDIT: this is roleplay in case anyone doesn't get it.

 

[Rickster]

Without accusing anyone of being deliberately argumentative, I find t hard to believe that anyone really thinks we live in a world where the mainstream media would publish a balanced article and go into any detail about whether marketing aimed at children actually works. It seems incredibly naive in the extreme.

You have lost me here....companies like Mcdonalds spend a fortune marketing say their happy meals with free toys...I think my girls were about 14 before they stopped asking for a happy meal......are you saying that advertisements in general that are targeted towards childern don't work?

 

[zouzounaki]

You have lost me here....companies like Mcdonalds spend a fortune marketing say their happy meals with free toys...I think my girls were about 14 before they stopped asking for a happy meal......are you saying that advertisements in general that are targeted towards childern don't work?

No, I’m not saying that at all, my post was aimed at the poster above who was bemoaning the sun article not having any research about marketing to children quoted for balance.

I’m saying that this would never happen and it is naive to think it would as we don’t live in a utopia, unfortunately.

Personally I think marketing and advertising do work, on many levels. But whether they work or not isn’t relevant to the point of this discussion, which is that stupid infantile child/sweetie themed marketing and packaging will attract unwanted attention and potentially lead to detrimental stuff like bans on flavours etc.

 

[speedfreek67]

Let’s reiterate that the situation here is not about kids vaping.

No, it's about fighting against people who want to make a non-issue into an issue, rather than just hiding everything in brown cardboard cartons.

 

[Rickster]

No, I’m not saying that at all, my post was aimed at the poster above who was bemoaning the sun article not having any research about marketing to children quoted for balance.

I’m saying that this would never happen and it is naive to think it would as we don’t live in a utopia, unfortunately.

Personally I think marketing and advertising do work, on many levels. But whether they work or not isn’t relevant to the point of this discussion, which is that stupid infantile child/sweetie themed marketing and packaging will attract unwanted attention and potentially lead to detrimental stuff like bans on flavours etc.

Ok got ye now

 

[ned]

EDIT: this is roleplay in case anyone doesn't get it.

How the fook is all that roleplay, unicorns are real fooking animals. I see one once lol

 

[zouzounaki]

No, it's about fighting against people who want to make a non-issue into an issue, rather than just hiding everything in brown cardboard cartons.

There’s no need for brown cardboard cartons, though. At this point at least. There are many manufacturers who design their packaging more responsibly, and actually some who have quite nice, artful designs.

This is quite a divisive issue, though. There are quite a few who have spoken out against this kind of marketing on several levels, for instance the juice cans with eliquid bottles inside etc. Others don’t like it at all, even on labels on bottles (me, for instance), and others who appear to object because they see it as handing out an opening to our opponents. And there are those who seem to like the nostalgia factor and don’t seem to see, or choose to ignore, the obvious risks this presents by way of opportunities for opponents of vaping.

Personally speaking plain cardboard cartons wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. I mostly puff diy liquid, that I put in plain unmarked bottles. The reason I vape is because I want nicotine, and find vaping to be a reasonably pleasurable and less risky way of getting it. I understand that the motivation for vaping varies from person to person.