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Vaporshark Test Every E-Liquid They Stock – Dr F Says They Are “Severely Problematic”

I don't know the whole story, and have no knowledge of the facts, it just seems a bit silly to me for a a vaping business to jump onto the scare monger bandwagon.
I just can't see what was hoped to be achieved.
Analysis and the subsequent knowledge of what chemicals a juice may or may not contain is one thing. The only important thing is confirmation of whether the chemicals are proven to be detrimental to vapers. So far the only evidence shown is that "might" is exactly the same as "might not" and everybody already knows that.
 
No doubt that some of these liquid tests have produced less than favourable results. I have no real idea what these numbers mean as there seems to be no definitive safe figure. But it seems like some of the figures reported have been purposely cherry picked to show the worst results possible and the story has been spun into a negative story where it could potentially have been be a positive one eg look how many liquids tested had good results instead off look at these bad results.

The main difference being that a positive story does not provide such good click bait to boost web stats (cough *ad revenue* cough) and also does not shine so favourably on VS own liquids.

At first I thought I would download all of the docs as they are interesting results and I was sure that if it’s as bad as it has been made out to be some of the juice manufactures will no longer supply to VS who in turn will no longer need to display the results.

As I started to down load the results I noticed a lot of liquids had positive ND (not detected) results compounding my cherry picking theory. It seems they didn’t test everything either. A few reports are missing and the whole NJOY collection is missing as well.

Below are the results for the first column in the VS navigation dropdown menu for eliquid (not including VS as they all had ND results). I have no real idea what these numbers mean as there seems to be no this is a safe/this is an unsafe figure. Take from this what you will, I see a whole lot more ND good results than bad ones.


Juice ManufacturerJuice NameDAAP
BodegaDu RagND214
 G-StringNDND
 LooseyND13.8
CyclopsArtemisND42.6
 AthenaNDND
 Colossus3,941042
 ErosNDND
 PoseidonNDND
KiloCereal Milk24.199.3
 Dewberry Cream24.8254
 Tru Blue17.5711
Kings CrestBlue QueenNDND
 Don JuanND2.14
 DuchessNDND
 DukeNDND
 EmpireNDND
 Monarch3,58ND
Lost Art LiquidsCoton Tail CreamNDND
 Kaptain Peanut Butler Krunch5.21ND
 Lost Arts Liquid ?NDND
 Space Rockz8.9419.6
 The Beez Kneez3.11ND
 Unicorn Puke3.8519.0
Nicks Blissful BrewsApple Cider48.3ND
 Fro Yo!56.0515
 Loop NinjaND544
 LushND13.2
 Smoked Custard4.19329
 Smoked Custard Plus6.24489
 Sway3.01488
Nic VapeChaos TheoryNDND
 CheshireNDND
 Frost BiteNDND
 HarlequinNDND
 Mojito LocoNDND
 Red VenomNDND
Omega VapeBreezeNDND
 Chronos2.23122
 Hendershot4.42509
 Monkey MusicNDND
 Santeria9.76671
Space JamAndromedaNDND
 AstroNDND
 EclipseNDND
 GalaticaNDND
 PlutoNDND
 Starship 18.84ND
 Venus2.0850.6
Traditional Juice CoBlack & BlueNDND
 Indian Giver12.61487
 LolaNDND
MystiqueAsteriaNDND
 CronosNDND
 HyperionND59.3
 OceanusNDND
 Prometheus10.7115
VintageThe DreamerNDND
 The DrifterND1867
 The JokerND386
 The Legend7.3142.9
 The LoverNDND
 The SinnerNDND
Mr Good VapeBahama MamaND33.3
 Double Dooyah4.74243
 DreamsicleNDND
 Heavens CandyNDND
 Honey BabyNDND
 Karma CreamNDND
 Melon HeadNDND
 Moon Sugar21.6840
 Sundae Fundae1.96ND
 Sunshine DaydreamNDND
 Sweet LovinNDND
 
Until we actually see evidence of harm greater than that caused by smoking this can only really be industry in-fighting, scare-mongering and click-baiting. Is juice not the most lucrative part of the vaping industry?
 
kingmoonie No, not really I thought it was a story worth running and I knew it would inevitably provide some debate in the community which is never a bad thing.

The bigger companies in the UK all test their products, why shouldn't larger brands in the US do the same thing?

Regarding NJOY, I believe they had the whole line lab tested prior to launch.

Guys, I'm in contact with the CEO of Vaporshark at the moment and probing him a little - if you have any questions for me to pass on, then please let me know below.
 
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kingmoonie No, not really I thought it was a story worth running and I knew it would inevitably provide some debate in the community which is never a bad thing.

The bigger companies in the UK all test their products, why shouldn't larger brands in the US do the same thing?

Regarding NJOY, I believe they had the whole line lab tested prior to launch.

Guys, I'm in contact with the CEO of Vaporshark at the moment and probing him a little - if you have any questions for me to pass on, then please let me know below.

I totally agree with you, all companies should test their juices, having done this themselves they would know the results and have the opportunity to change their recipe, maybe some of them did test and had conflicting results to VS we do not know this. Without a set safe level and industry standard for testing it is all just hearsay.

I guess if juice manufactures don’t test themselves then it’s their fault if someone else does it for them.

My slight issue is the angle of the story which does not help the vaping community. In a time when there are so many forces working against vaping being broken up from the inside by one of the largest and most well-known companies is the anti-vaping merchants wet dream.

Out of the 74 juices I listed above, 38 contained no AP/DA, 10 contained AP only and 5 contained DA only. That’s over 50% of the juices listed passing with flying colours. I guess it’s a glass have full thing. What is there to gain from looking at this negatively?

I have no issue with premise of testing juice to see if it is safe for consumption.

I do have a couple of questions:

Did VS independently test the NJOY juices? If not why not? Surely having high profile juice that has already been tested would add a degree of certainty that their testing was accurate should similar results have been seen against NJOYs own tests. (a control if you will). For all we know they did test it and the results were totally different which means all of VS test results can’t be taken seriously.

Did VS inform the juice manufactures that they were releasing this information before publishing it?

What has been the feedback from manufactures with negative test results?

Will they do this with all further Juice lines they stock?

What if a juice manufacture contacts them to say they have amended their recipe, will they retest?

Thanks for taking the time to get some answers for us.
 
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Cheers mate.

I've got a few of those covered, but a couple will be added, thanks for your input.

Just waiting on his response.
 
I'd ask him this:-

Vaporshark's reputation, formerly preeminent within vaping, took on some tarnish with the recent releases of the DNA40 hardware. Can Vaporshark really afford to add further tarnish with the mixed reception to the preparation and publication of these test results?
 
This posted elsewhere copied here by permission in the interests of balance and weighing the scales of the world.

:


http://www.cyclopsvapor.com/.../diacetyl-and-acetyl.../

Expect to see a great many more of these. Looking at the levels found in the VS release I am almost 100% certain they are far from accurate.

The article states that VS wants industry standard testing for all - I guess as long as it's through their chums at Enthalpy who aren't using the GC-MS tests or to the relevant ISO used elsewhere. They could argue that their GC-FID is more accurate but that is usually against an uncalibrated mass spec machine and is usually just a lower cost way of getting quantification.

Knowing that many e-liquid brands are using similar flavour houses and having seen plenty of other GC-MS printouts with nowhere close to the vastly elevated levels in the report I find the whole thing difficult to swallow. And yet VS liquids are totally and utterly free of anything?

Add to this the reports of companies sending in blind samples to enthalpy and getting wildly different results from the same product and same batch I have serious doubts.




 
This posted elsewhere copied here by permission in the interests of balance and weighing the scales of the world.

:


http://www.cyclopsvapor.com/.../diacetyl-and-acetyl.../

Expect to see a great many more of these. Looking at the levels found in the VS release I am almost 100% certain they are far from accurate.

The article states that VS wants industry standard testing for all - I guess as long as it's through their chums at Enthalpy who aren't using the GC-MS tests or to the relevant ISO used elsewhere. They could argue that their GC-FID is more accurate but that is usually against an uncalibrated mass spec machine and is usually just a lower cost way of getting quantification.

Knowing that many e-liquid brands are using similar flavour houses and having seen plenty of other GC-MS printouts with nowhere close to the vastly elevated levels in the report I find the whole thing difficult to swallow. And yet VS liquids are totally and utterly free of anything?

Add to this the reports of companies sending in blind samples to enthalpy and getting wildly different results from the same product and same batch I have serious doubts.





To expand on this:

I make a juice I know has tiny amounts of AP in one flavour (and transparently advertised on the brand website) , at the quantity used and in dilution I would have to use at least 80% flavouring to come close to the lowest of those results. My product is not detected at 1 part per million for either DA or AP.

At less than 1ppm it is well within any and all safe exposure limits so I know that minute amount isn't going to be an issue.

I have said before that safe exposure is different to contains. You could have too much dihydrogen monoxide and it will kill you and yet it is sonetimes used in our E-liquid's.

Back to the point I was trying to make, at the levels found they would have to be physically adding DA and AP in as most flavour houses have minimised what they use. I am yet to be convinced about this at all.
 
Can anyone hazard a guess as to Vaporshark's objectives here? Bearing in mind that it will have cost them and might cost them even more yet ...
 
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