Banned From Vaping?

[Gonloopy]

Ah, no, that's far more comprehensive, thank you.
That study details the nicotine concentrations used, duration, room volume, variables etc that weren't in the original link.
What looked "suspect" was a value of 34ug/m of nicotine after cigarette used, but 0 when e-cigs were used. If the study below yours is representative, you'd expect a value of ~ 3.4ug/m rather than 0.
All analysis will have a limit of determination (LOD,) that is the lower limit that either the instrumentation, the sample collection methods, or usually both can work to usually based upon how repeatable results are by RSD.

I don't have time to go through the whole article (nor do I want to having worked on analysis methods all week!) but it looks as if all the parameters are specified.
Thanks for the link, I will have a read through at leisure next week

My apologies, I probably threw you off by not linking the source article. Schoolgirl error
I have to critically appraise a lot of research trials for my work, - in terms of trial structure , validity in the real world etc, but I don't crunch the numbers.

Would be interested to here your thoughts if you get round to it next week.

 

[UltraViolence]

My mum wont let me vape in her house when I visit, but doesn't argue my dad smoking in the kitchen. Go figure.. lots of places it's banned here. We liked spending time in the shops we buy our vaping stuff from. Allowed to in there and we can chill and chat too. Sadly, people are afraid of that they do not understand.

 

[bbav]

I always ask before vaping unless it's in a pub I know is vape friendly.
I'm loving being able to sit in a pub again to be honest because I stopped going into pubs after the smoking ban,I used to chain smoke when drinking so would end up buying a pint to stand outside with.

For those worried about pets let me give you a brief layout of my desk that I spend probably about 12 hours a day if not more sat at vaping.
Right next to my head I have a glass vivarium with 3 fire bellied toads in,On top of them (so about 8'' from my head) is our tarantula.
Just behind me are the 2 royal pythons so about 3' away and to my left is the 3 ferrets cage.
We have had no signs of ill health from any of them since I started vaping on the 16th of December.

My wife has cystic fibrosis and is around me 24/7 none of her doctors have expressed any concerns about her health in that time and have actually noticed a rise in her lung function and less time spent in hospital since I switched to vaping

 

[Chiefnutter]

If however I'm in a vape friendly place - and Im asked to stop by someone who doesnt own it "because they don't like it" they can frankly bollocks

I wouldnt run to the management like a little school kid, I'd have the decency to ask you first (just like id expect others to have the decency to ask before they vape), then if you refused I would speak to the owner or manager......& I bet in 99% of cases youd be asked to stop & esp when i tell them that im also a vaper (and show them my e-cig) but not in enclosed public places.

I forget that others are not so knowledgeable on the proper science done on e-cigs. And the shear volume of bull crap dished out by the anti's, leads others to believe that bull crap.

You dont have to have scientific knowledge to understand that there is an element of risk invloved with vaping & most other things we put into our lungs....I havent read any information from the anti's regarding vaping & I also tend to steer away from information given in pro vaping forums, I find my own sources & then use my own logic to work out fact from fiction......This study...& this study......are the kind of things I read & even then its still with an open mind ;-).......I know myself that vaping isnt totally safe, if I heavy vape it affects my lungs & throat.....even my voice, also when I first started vaping (before my daughter was born) I used to vape in the livingroom with hy missus sat next to me, it wasnt long before she was effected & started to cough & have a dry throat...that was enough for me to stop doing it at home & make me realise it did affect others around me... im glad that happened before the birth my my child...so for anyone to claim its totally harmless is just pure B/S

 

[Chiefnutter]

For those worried about pets let me give you a brief layout of my desk that I spend probably about 12 hours a day if not more sat at vaping.
Right next to my head I have a glass vivarium with 3 fire bellied toads in,On top of them (so about 8'' from my head) is our tarantula.
Just behind me are the 2 royal pythons so about 3' away and to my left is the 3 ferrets cage.
We have had no signs of ill health from any of them since I started vaping on the 16th of December.

My wife has cystic fibrosis and is around me 24/7 none of her doctors have expressed any concerns about her health in that time and have actually noticed a rise in her lung function and less time spent in hospital since I switched to vaping

Youve seen no visual effects to something which is less harmful than cigarette smoke & thats just over a very short time period!!??....Be honest Im sure you could say the same if you chain smoked in the room, did you see any effects on them when you used to smoke tobacco in the room ?....I'll bet the answer is also no.... I would have said unless its another human that can communicate with you, your not going to know until it "possibly" does affect them & even then I doubt we'd associate it with vaping chemicals.....Im sure you know that amphibians are more sensitive to atmospheric conditions than most other animals, which is why its been known for years that you shouldnt spray things like furniture polish or deodorants around them......the chemicals in vaping arent going to be any different, its just less harmful than aerosols & the tobacco smoke that was there before.
Im not far off the same as you in that I stopped smoking tobacco in November last year, but before that Ive smoked tobacco for about the same time ive been keeping reptiles, amphibians & insects (nearly 30 years) & i used to smoke in the same room ive kept reptiles for years....even if one of them died I still wouldnt have to put it down to my smoking habit or even think it had had an effect on them...but I realise if it affects humans then its also going to have an effect on most other living things & usually the smaller the size the quicker those things can manifest.
Thats great news for you and your wife & I hope things improve even more for you both over the longer period & to be honest I would have thought thats the kind of results that would be expected if you stopped smoking tobacco around her anyway.

Back to everyone:.....The fact is I see the same old argument regarding vaping time & time again.....its less harmful than tobacco smoke & the products used in the juices are consumed in everday items that even non smokers eat so it must be safe.... Although its true regarding the tobacco smoke, with regards to heating chemicals to high temperatures.....until we know the undiluted truth & the facts.......in my opinion that just isnt the case!

 

[jediknight129]

If I am sat in the nice comfy leather armchair in the boozer I haunted in York. The one that is VERY vape friendly, with full permission of not only the Landlord but manager assistant manager and area manager for the chain vaping whilst writing and reading you would come ask me to stop. Ok fine no issue with that you can request whatever you like. If i then respond no, I have permission to vape in here and I don't really want to stop vaping here, you would then go to the management of the premises in order to have me pressured into stopping?

So yeah pretty.much you would go running like a schoolboy, in the hopes of getting a pat on the head from teacher because I dare not to be cowed by your demands, because that's what they are if you intend to respond to a refusal with force of a higher authority rather than toddling off to sit somewhere else.

You are right in that 99% of the time in that circumstance where you complain that I would be asked to.stop and that's without the look at me.look at me I'm a ecig user and I won't vape inside speech.

But it isn't a good thing that this is the case because what it shows is that rather than management telling people look the activity is perfectly legal leave him alone management acquiese to complaints that can be summed up as 'but his perfectly legal behaviour offends my delicate sensibilities make it stop!!!' Then people who complain about things that have no impact on them are emboldened to do it more often. The WrongBadFun won't somebody think of the children, ban everything objectionable treat everybody as an idiot incapable of even taking a pee without a government advice label brigade.

People that complain that I was drinking a can of relentless on the bus, 'That's lager that's lager I know what a beer can looks like' people that think its acceptable to pull my headphones out of my ears and demand I stand up on the bus because I am a young person and therefore fit and then whinge because I indicate they didn't see the cane then demand I turn my music down because it's 'rude' that i didnt hear them and they were therefore right to rip my headphones down. or feel they can lecture me for opening a bag of crisps.

Or for readING 'offensive books' in public (lolita for my degree) or walk up to me and demand I turn my shirt inside out so they can't see the slogan that offends them. (A christian band name and a bible verse) or the people that demanded I stop holding hands with my partner of the time whilst out as a girl because it made them uncomfortable/this wasn't that kind of establishment. The kind of person that complains that I am writing erotica In the cafe and attempts to have me thrown out because I refuse to stop because we'll they were only offended because they peered over at my screen over my shoulder. People that look for a reason to be offended, people using that as a way to b rowboat people.

The kind of person that got me stopped and searched by the police because I was reading an English translation of the Koran on the train and working on a uni essay. Because Backpack + Koran obviously means I am evil... Or reporting me for drugs because I was wearing a maiden shirt and big stomp boots and baggy jeans.

All perfectly legal activities that didn't impact them but because management don't turn round and tell people to live and let live they continue to complain and use their being the squeaky wheel to enforce their wants. Resulting in a situation where if i tell someone no I won't stop what I am doing that doesn't affect you, I was here first so if you don't like it move means they toddle off and accuse.me of that greatest of all crimes in the modern world 'I'm offended'.

It's that attitude that is part of the reason I don't smoke in public anymore, I was driven outside by the law when it was decided that rather than allowing owners of PRIVATE businesses to choose whether to allow smoking on their premises those who were offended pushed a ban through. The promised wave of non smokers who didn't go to pubs because of the smoke never arrived and pubs across the country have shut or have seen a huge drop in trade. Then once driven outside I wasn't free of the complaints, first it was the fact the smoking areas were 'too enclosed' and the evangelist non smokers couldn't abide that I could enjoy my smoke dry and protected from the wind in a well sheltered area so the pub had to cut a hole in the gazebo roof allowing wind and rain in. I sit outside with a cigar on one of England's few nice days in the beer garden sat at a table with an ashtray and have to listen to whinging and lectures and how I am 'inconsiderate'. Have people just like you come and 'ask' me to put my cigar out and when I refuse pointing at the smoking area sign hanging above me, they as you do go to management in the hopes of finding a higher authority to enforce their will. The whole thing just sucking the enjoyment out of it, meaning it's become some furtive thing starting with a glance over.my shoulder to make sure I am not going to have my moment of relaxation taken by that snide cough or nasally 'excuse me'

Plus of course by demanding I go join the smokers you're putting My health at risk, even though admittedly the risks of passive smoking have been over exaggerated in their harm there is still a level of harm. Even with the none tobacco smoking mixtures cause a level of damage.

You would try and throw me under the bus and go but but but I'm an ecig user but..... and pull at heartstrings until you get what you want?

Any source that isn't found in the 'right' place isn't credible and you decided this without actually looking at the sources and made a decision based on feelings?

If I have misinterpreted anything you have written please feel free to comment and attempt to correct my understanding by clarifying your points but be mindful of the fact that what a writer means doesn't matter it's how a reader interprets the words used in relation to their experiences that decides meaning. So you can say something and it not mean what you were meaning.

The Only thing I do agree with in that post is that an increased presence of atomised glycerin in the air can lead to a dry mouth and a cough as it leads the brain into believing it is dehydrated and that's why you get that weird cotton mouth when spending time around a fog machine.

I respect your right to an opinion and your right to request I stop doing whatever activity you find objectionable just please don't be offended when I refuse your 'reasonable request' and dismiss you and go back to what I was doing before being acosted.

 

[anthonyb]

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/commentary/what-you-need-know-about-electronic-cigarettes

Pseudoscience in electronic cigarette policy - Bernd Mayer

Formaldehyde release in ecigarette vapor The New York Times story explained in detail

 

[Raguri]

Just putting it out there.

Either this guy Reaally is this dumb, or works for pharmaceutical, big tobacco, or is the public health Secretary

 

[Chiefnutter]

If I am sat in the nice comfy leather armchair in the boozer I haunted in York. The one that is VERY vape friendly, with full permission of not only the Landlord but manager assistant manager and area manager for the chain vaping whilst writing and reading you would come ask me to stop. Ok fine no issue with that you can request whatever you like. If i then respond no, I have permission to vape in here and I don't really want to stop vaping here, you would then go to the management of the premises in order to have me pressured into stopping?

So yeah pretty.much you would go running like a schoolboy, in the hopes of getting a pat on the head from teacher because I dare not to be cowed by your demands, because that's what they are if you intend to respond to a refusal with force of a higher authority rather than toddling off to sit somewhere else.

Why are you going off on one ?.....do you see this as some kind of personal attack on you ?
I thought it would be nice to have an adult conversation about this but people seem to be throwing toys out of prams!

In answer to your question......No......If the management have given you permission & I still disagreed with it Id go elsewhere............Simples!

 

[Chiefnutter]

Just putting it out there.

Either this guy Reaally is this dumb, or works for pharmaceutical, big tobacco, or is the public health Secretary

Grow up raguri....I think if you read the rules of this forum it asks members to act in an adult maner without throwing childish insults around.
Its my personal views & if im a user of e-cigs & juice then it would be hypocritical of me to put any opinion if I was involved with any of those organisations youve mentioned.

You might want to read the news on a more regular basis, you cant include tobacco companies in the list of yours.... Big Tobacco companies invest in E-Cigs