BBC - Smokers increasingly overestimate vaping risk

[ZT]

No it's not...

There has always been a demand for nicotine since time immemorial, whether under-age or not; it's not going to change.

If kids get hooked on nicotine, then at least they don't have to do it in the deadly fashion that people of previous generations had to, so are actually very lucky in that respect.

It's all a load of fucking BS.

I do not disagree in that i would prefer kids who are going to try shit anyway to be vaping than smoking.

But i would prefer they were not vaping dodgy illegal shit - and also that the less desirable characters in the industry didn't blatantly market and sell to them.

That above is what has been noticed

And that weakens our “its not a gateway to other things” argument.

Because clearly its a gateway too superstrong nic cartoon festooned unknown quantity vapes. At the least.

All any MP has to do if they want to make a point is point to the outside of most inner city schools with the kids sucking disposables like they are dummies as they come out of school for the day (this is literally what its like here) and say “look”

Making our argument look totally invalid.

As i said would happen a couple or three years ago.

Honestly i dont know why everyone is so surprised - it never needed a grand master chess type brain to see what was blatantly going to happen.

 

[MarylinC37]

This is why I'm so amazed why there are still so many people in the vape world who are against banning disposables when you look at how badly they are devastating the vaping industry in this Country.

Disposables are totally out of control. You've got thousands of convenience shops, market stalls, pubs, newsagents and supermarkets selling them openly on display with staff who have no interest in the vape industry and make virtually zero effort to prevent under age sales. I've never known a situation before where kids have such easy access and such a wide choice of places where they can easily buy as many disposables as they like. MP's aren't blind and when they see so much of it happening on the streets right in front of their eyes what on earth are we supposed to say to try and defend that?

I really worry for all the smaller vape venders whose livelihoods are under threat because of all this.

 

[Toby iVapour]

This is why I'm so amazed why there are still so many people in the vape world who are against banning disposables when you look at how badly they are devastating the vaping industry in this Country.

A number of reasons (cba to list them all, have done elsewhere), but the main reason is the excuse to impose unnecessary restrictions on other aspects of vapes.

If they were only gonna ban disposables (even though in principle I think they should be allowed), I would be fine with that, and the main reason for me is due to the waste of resources/ environmental issues.

But i would prefer they were not vaping dodgy illegal shit...

That's still gonna happen - banning something twice doesn't make it go away, but banning the disposable aspect should make the already illegal aspect less available.

Honestly i dont know why everyone is so surprised - it never needed a grand master chess type brain to see what was blatantly going to happen.

I'm not sure how surprised everyone is (e.g. most peeps knew tax was on the cards for years), but the heavy handed response (esp. in restricting flavours) simply goes against the UK's previous reputation as global leader in tobacco harm reduction.

And it makes no sense...

 

[vapesmarter]

This is why I'm so amazed why there are still so many people in the vape world who are against banning disposables when you look at how badly they are devastating the vaping industry in this Country.

Disposables are totally out of control. You've got thousands of convenience shops, market stalls, pubs, newsagents and supermarkets selling them openly on display with staff who have no interest in the vape industry and make virtually zero effort to prevent under age sales. I've never known a situation before where kids have such easy access and such a wide choice of places where they can easily buy as many disposables as they like. MP's aren't blind and when they see so much of it happening on the streets right in front of their eyes what on earth are we supposed to say to try and defend that?

I really worry for all the smaller vape venders whose livelihoods are under threat because of all this.

disposables are out of control but what is the reason?

the press says it's the kids it is an epidemic to the point that if you see the shock headlines it is nearly 70% of school-age children using them with figures of a two-thirds or increase of 25% last year etc etc but wait a minute that means in terms of size lets say 3 million children vape. the total number of vape users in the UK has increased from 3.5 to 4.1 million year on year its been steady so in effect the press are saying 3 million under 16s vape, where are 3 million under 16s buying their disposables from that is a busy corner shop.

the figures and the hysteria don't make sense the statement "I see kids using them all around me" also doesn't hold water. some children vape the same as there are children who smoke but the published figures are not being used from credible sources. which are much much lower.

but the main users of disposables are adults and that is the problem the disposables thrown from car windows on busy roads, motorways, outside pubs clubs etc are those due to the kids are they driving cars and going clubbing

disposables are convenient some people don't want a tank and a bottle of juice or a big mod they want something small and.....disposable

there lies the problem when we have little made in this country we are a nation of consumers with strawberries flown over from Spain or Morroco, phones microwaves plastic shite made in china, and with it comes cheap mods.

everyone wants to blame someone when the fact the blame is the consumer the trade bodies are being blamed but they are trade, they represent the companies selling they are not the saviors it's the consumer who purchased the product, not the kids it's the adults.

I know another mod maker that has closed this week there are just 3 I know that are legitimate companies and I am one of them in the UK that makes in any quantity.

the sad fact is if the population of vapers didn't buy disposables we would not be in this position but they didn't and here we are


edit

I'm going to expo to exhibit in may, Expo will be full of disposables and also there will be thousands of people getting the same disposables and then saying "stop the Ban of flavours" whilst vaping on a disposable. i really couldn't make this up

 

[Netvaper]

It's consumers who buy stuff so yes they are responsible for the surge in popularity of disposables and it's them who discard them but they can only buy what manufacturers make and they undoubtedly targeted those who are underage and knew full well they are single use and very difficult to recycle and didn't care and nor did the trade and retailers flogging them. Anyway they'll be banned soon in the UK so we'll find out if that makes any difference.

 

[vapesmarter]

It's consumers who buy stuff so yes they are responsible for the surge in popularity of disposables and it's them who discard them but they can only buy what manufacturers make and they undoubtedly targeted those who are underage and knew full well they are single use and very difficult to recycle and didn't care and nor did the trade and retailers flogging them. Anyway they'll be banned soon in the UK so we'll find out if that makes any difference.

Agreed

But the companies are China, juice has been for years wrapped in cartoon characters.

The companies selling them did because the demand was there but if the companies didn’t they would of gone under when you have a business with staff and said to the staff im laying you all off because I’m taking a moral stance do you think the staff would be all supportive.

Banning them will not work it hasn’t in the USA with the pmta so it will just go underground you can still buy ultra high nic salts online in the uk quite freely you can also buy 2mil 8mil 10mil tanks non are Tpd compliant

 

[Toby iVapour]

.. you can still buy ultra high nic salts online in the uk quite freely you can also buy 2mil 8mil 10mil tanks non are Tpd compliant

Yes, and what's really wrong with higher strength nic salts?
Nothing IMO. If someone can't handle that strength, it will simply give them a headache, and they will stop using it/ not buy again...

And we all know there's nothing wrong with larger tank sizes.

 

[vapesmarter]

Yes, and what's really wrong with higher strength nic salts?
Nothing IMO. If someone can't handle that strength, it will simply give them a headache, and they will stop using it/ not buy again...

And we all know there's nothing wrong with larger tank sizes.

I know that you know that

But the government will just go “look at the industry they just ignored the Tpd the eu directive it’s out of control”

 

[Toby iVapour]

But the government will just go “look at the industry they just ignored the Tpd the eu directive it’s out of control”

When they should have been saying that the TPD regs were wrong/ not fit for purpose.
The limits on tanks and bottle sizes was absurd.

And I think a much fairer legal limit for nic would be 50mg.
Why should high nic strength users be forced to use the black market?

 

[MarylinC37]

I can see the reasons why some people disagree with banning disposables which is why I don't try to go to over the top fighting for it. I just don't happen to agree with those reasons.

Flavoured e-liquid, vape taxes, high nicotine juices, large vape tanks - none of those things have caused the problems we're in now.

Disposables have!

The massive explosion in their popularity means that the problems they're creating are huge and are in plain sight for everyone to see and it's the disposable problem that is putting the entire industry at risk. I don't accept the argument that if you ban the obvious real culprit it might lead to banning something else.

Flavour bans and vape taxes need to treated and fought as seperate issues and stuff disposables. If every disposable disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't give a toss.