Cycles of tastes in Vaping.

[scrumpox]

I... I was able to enjoy vaping as a thing in itself and not just tolerate it as a facsimile of smoking.

The penny drop moment I can certainly relate to and perhaps what doesn't happen when switchers fail. Vaping and smoking are like chewing and eating, similar and different.

... squonkers ... basically a fix for a problem that was at best a minor nuisance.It's all just a gimmick though.

I couldn't agree more.

Fundamentally, vape hardware consists of a power source, an atomizer and a juice supply. The RDA's weakness is the absence of a juice supply system, requiring constant user attention to wicking and having a juice bottle in the other hand at all times ... and tissues within arm's length. Tanks and squonking are two different juice supply system solutions. Tanks integrate the atomizer and juice, squonking shifts the juice reservoir to the mod, it's a real estate balance with battery quantity and location a key compromise factor. Squonking still demands more user attention, under- and over-squonking being the downfalls, with tanks it's simply fill and forget.

In use the nuisance factors for vapers are leaking, refilling and changing cells/recharging. Tanks (generally speaking) have solved leaking issues better than RDAs; refilling a tank is quicker and less faff than refilling a squonking bottle; mods which don't give up space for a squonk bottle achieve a better balance of size, weight, time between cell changes. When out and about, the combination of tank and mod is a much more user-friendly solution than the squonking set up. RDAs when at home, whether squonked or not, are less of a problem. It's absolutely normal for vapers to have different set ups for use at home and when out and about.

To my way of thinking about the two juice supply solutions, the only reason why you'd choose squonking is because you want to squonk, because you delight in the extra user interaction.That's the gimmick.

 

[memzey]

The penny drop moment I can certainly relate to and perhaps what doesn't happen when switchers fail. Vaping and smoking are like chewing and eating, similar and different.

I couldn't agree more.

Fundamentally, vape hardware consists of a power source, an atomizer and a juice supply. The RDA's weakness is the constant user attention to wicking and having a juice bottle in the other hand at all times ... and tissues within arm's length. Tanks integrate the atomizer and juice, squonking shifts the juice reservoir to the mod, it's a real estate balance with battery quantity and location a key compromise factor. Squonking still demands more user attention, under- and over-squonking being the downfalls, with tanks it's simply fill and forget.

In use the nuisance factors for vapers are leaking, refilling and changing cells/recharging. Tanks (generally speaking) have solved leaking issues better than RDAs; refilling a tank is quicker and less faff than refilling a squonking bottle; mods which don't give up space for a squonk bottle achieve a better balance of size, weight, time between cell changes. When out and about, the combination of tank and mod is a much more user-friendly solution than the squonking set up. RDAs when at home, whether squonked or not, are less of a problem. It's absolutely normal for vapers to have different set ups for use at home and when out and about.

To my way of thinking about the two juice supply solutions, the only reason why you'd choose squonking is because you want to squonk, because you delight in the extra user interaction.That's the gimmick.

I can’t agree with this. There may be plenty of gimmicks in vaping but I don’t think squonking qualifies as one. Your presupposition that the experience of vaping on a tank = the experience of vaping on an RDA doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny. Beyond the fact that they both atomise liquid, the type of vape to be enjoyed by each type can be and often is quite different. If you are someone who likes the type of vape that only comes from a good RDA then squonking offers convenience while out and about (driving for example) as the need to drip is obviated. If you don’t really like that type of vape and/or don’t vape in circumstances where dripping is inconvenient, then it may well look like a waste of time to you. That does not mean it is a gimmick, just that it’s not for you.

 

[scrumpox]

Your presupposition that the experience of vaping on a tank = the experience of vaping on an RDA doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny.

What presupposition?

 

[memzey]

What presupposition?

The presupposition that tanks and drippers only differ in the ways you list. Your list of differences precludes any variance in vaping experience between RTAs and RDAs (beyond the inconvenience of dripping). This is what I disagree with. The paragraph beginning “Fundamentally” and ending with “fill and forget” sets most of this thinking out.

I should add that I do think most of what you have written, if not all, does stack up if you share that presupposition. The problem is; if you really prefer the vape off a dripper but find dripping inconvenient or impossible, then squonking starts to look like a pretty good solution. Definitely not an open and shut case of being a gimmick.

 

[Simon G]

I feel like I'm back at uni all of sudden......

 

[TheLiqidator]

I feel like I'm back at uni all of sudden......

I feel like I'm back at uni all of sudden......

'Mon the debate team, am right behind Memzey. 'Mon the squonks!

 

[memzey]

It’s my fault apes. The last two weeks at work for me have been a pretty intense mess of writing contracts and policies. That writing style has clearly bled into my non-work writing.

I think I need some whiskey

 

[scrumpox]

The presupposition that tanks and drippers only differ in the ways you list. Your list of differences precludes any variance in vaping experience between RTAs and RDAs (beyond the inconvenience of dripping). This is what I disagree with. The paragraph beginning “Fundamentally” and ending with “fill and forget” sets most of this thinking out.

I should add that I do think most of what you have written, if not all, does stack up if you share that presupposition. The problem is; if you really prefer the vape off a dripper but find dripping inconvenient or impossible, then squonking starts to look like a pretty good solution. Definitely not an open and shut case of being a gimmick.

That presupposition doesn't exist in what I said, only in your interpretation of it. I wasn't making any kind of comparision between vaping from drippers and tanks instead I went straight to fundamentals, in very general terms, to compare the two juice flow solutions.

It would be a long and fruitless debate to compare the flavour and vaping experience of any given squonking set up with any given RTA / RDTA and mod. There are thousands of combinations and user preferences. All the other variables simply muddy the waters but setting them aside is not presupposing. Without making a presupposition I wanted to take it right back to what squonking is in its essence.Squonking is a mechanical juice flow system which replaces holding a bottle of juice in one hand and manually feeding the coil and wick. Only by understanding the nature of what it is can we then work out whether it is or is not a gimmick.

Here's a definition of gimmick from Dictionary.com - an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

I don't think that holding the juice in a tank is gimmicky but I would definitely argue that squonking is.

 

[memzey]

Must....resist..........




Ah fuck it.

That presupposition doesn't exist in what I said, only in your interpretation of it.

Presuppositions are normally not explicitly expressed. They are pre-supposed but present by implication. That’s why I used that word, it was in no way accidental. All anyone can do is reply to the words actually used and (more pertinently in this discussion) not used.

It would be a long and fruitless debate to compare the flavour and vaping experience of any given squonking set up with any given RTA / RDTA and mod.

Agreed, although I’m sure it’s happened more than once, somewhere on the internet Ultimately though, in order to establish the relative value of an option, we do, at the very least, need to observe that these differences exist. Not to do so not only risks presupposing that the differences don’t exist but is also redactive and leads to unreliable conclusions. If you don’t like presupposition, (because perhaps you don’t actually hold that view, for example) something like omission might cover it. Either way, it needs to be acknowledged that (some) people who drip or squonk, do it because they seek the outcome it produces. Not because they don’t have other options, aren’t aware of other options or have fallen for a gimmick. I think that is basically one half of my point and why I disagreed with your post.

Only by understanding the nature of what it is can we then work out whether it is or is not a gimmick.

Well, yes but no, to my mind at least. Yes, because you can’t hope to conclude anything useful unless you understand what is going on. No, because I think it’s a bridge too far to go from “juice flow system”, illustrated with an arguable list of drawbacks and a playfully but misleadingly edited quote, to “gimmick”.

Here's a definition of gimmick from Dictionary.com - an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

I don't think that holding the juice in a tank is gimmicky but I would definitely argue that squonking is.

If I wanted to be childish, I’d use that definition and point out that, as RDAs predate RTAs, it’s arguable that tanks are the real gimmicks here! I’m not going to do that though Ultimately squonking isn’t for you and you think it’s a bit gimmicky. I can, sort of, in some ways, see where you’re coming from but don’t share that opinion. Basically because I prefer the vape from drippers and appreciate the utility of a squonker when dripping is inconvenient, making it something other than a gimmick to me.

Now, where’s that whiskey?

 

[scrumpox]

Must....resist..........

Ah fuck it.

Presuppositions are normally not explicitly expressed. They are pre-supposed but present by implication. That’s why I used that word, it was in no way accidental. All anyone can do is reply to the words actually used and (more pertinently in this discussion) not used.

Agreed, although I’m sure it’s happened more than once, somewhere on the internet Ultimately though, in order to establish the relative value of an option, we do, at the very least, need to observe that these differences exist. Not to do so not only risks presupposing that the differences don’t exist but is also redactive and leads to unreliable conclusions. If you don’t like presupposition, (because perhaps you don’t actually hold that view, for example) something like omission might cover it. Either way, it needs to be acknowledged that (some) people who drip or squonk, do it because they seek the outcome it produces. Not because they don’t have other options, aren’t aware of other options or have fallen for a gimmick. I think that is basically one half of my point and why I disagreed with your post.

Well, yes but no, to my mind at least. Yes, because you can’t hope to conclude anything useful unless you understand what is going on. No, because I think it’s a bridge too far to go from “juice flow system”, illustrated with an arguable list of drawbacks and a playfully but misleadingly edited quote, to “gimmick”.

If I wanted to be childish, I’d use that definition and point out that, as RDAs predate RTAs, it’s arguable that tanks are the real gimmicks here! I’m not going to do that though Ultimately squonking isn’t for you and you think it’s a bit gimmicky. I can, sort of, in some ways, see where you’re coming from but don’t share that opinion. Basically because I prefer the vape from drippers and appreciate the utility of a squonker when dripping is inconvenient, making it something other than a gimmick to me.

Now, where’s that whiskey?

I hope that you enjoyed your whiskey.

You're clinging desperately to the presupposition argument for no reason other than your personal preference on vape outcome. For me, it's yet another case in vaping where idiosyncrasies trump utility, where flaws are accepted in niche vape activity and products and, more often than not, eulogised as part of their charm. To analyse two different juice flow systems I had deliberately set personal preference aside because of the consequent impossibility of any conclusion, but for you it's the only possible defence. Really, it's fine if you wish to squonk, your reasons for doing it are completely legitimate, no one should take it from you. Me, no, I don't see the Emperor's new clothes.

No surprise that you wouldn't wish to make the argument that tanks are gimmicks. Any claim that the 99% of vaping activity outside of your prefered niche is the real gimmick would be extremely difficult to justify though entertaining to read. Probably, as you say, childish to even attempt it.

I'm calling bullshit on your assertion that RDAs predate RTAs since the e-cigarette, with its holistic design which includes a juice supply predates both. Indeed the omission of juice supply in the use of RDAs is the only reason why squonking exists - the recognition of flawed utility, necessity is the mother of invention. Squonkers come and squonkers go, as a solution to the juice supply problem it's completely overshadowed by the superiority of the tank. It was, remains and will always be just a gimmick. That's not to say that you shouldn't enjoy it for what it is though. Instead you should embrace your gimmick knowing that preference is no defence.