Do we need to accept that we will have to "pay" for Ejuice?

[BuffaloVapes]

I am not a professional analyst, but it makes no sense to me that world governments will start tearing at their hair and running crazed into the streets screaming and shouting because of ecigarettes. Of course there will be waves made and some mild hysteria from some closed networks and their buddies, a whole lot of misinformation and media hype but on the whole, regulation and control of a successful new industry is all it will take to satisfy government in general. I don't believe you'll see massive rises in tobacco prices, maybe some emmediate rises just to pay for this years vacation. Although at times heavy handed, government is not stupid and will simply create sweeping rises hidden behind spin that will generally go unnoticed. After all isn't that what government is good at? It is very unlikely in my opinion that we will see much panic in general. Lots of hype, yes. I do think vapers should expect a slap, and venders a kicking though, just so they are reminded who's boss.

Government is big business, it has a monopoly and has been successful in pulling in a profit and paying off its directors for quite sometime. If anything, 'they' may be more open to creative solutions like legalizing cannabis or simply heavy handed approaches like making more friends at the pharma fairs this year!

 

[oddsocks]

I don't think the loss of revenue from tax on tobacco will be as devastating as the govt might think; I would estimate that around 70% of newbies in my town didn't get their regular fag/tobacco from legitimate retailers. These all agree that, even though they never paid full price for their stinkys, they would still be making a saving by vaping. If this is the case, surely it should also be taken into account that the govt. a) won't be loosing out on the revenue as much as originally thought and b) will be saving on fighting illegal fags/tobacco.

 

[Chegs]

I posted this same comment recently....


I was sitting idly messing with my RBA and had the radio on(as usual)when I subconsciously heard something on the News about an 8% drop in revenue for either the government or Tobacco companies.I didn't take enough notice to absorb it in its entirety but I did think "that'll be the vaping to blame" Now 8% doesn't sound that big a number,but remember all the fuss made over wage increases of just 2% or so costing huge sums for "X"?

This particular government are forever banging on about "our" debt reducing by "X" since they arrived.They are also keen to remove our "Welfare state" as all I ever seem to hear is Cameron/Osborne stating they've introduced measures that cut the amount the unemployed have to live on,and how the unemployed are being made to pay for extra bedrooms/extra for rent etc.Thatcher started my interest in how Conservatives penalise the unemployed when she introduced taxation of benefits,back then it was brought to my attention that there are regulations stating the MINIMUM amount needed for living expenses so I did wonder what the point of taxing a benefit would be(as this surely meant that the benefit payment dropped below the regulated minimum)as then,the benefit payment would need increased to bring it back to the regulation minimum payment.

If what I heard on the News is correctly identified as how much the governments income has dropped,and is likely caused by the reduction in tobacco products being purchased due to vaping,then I doubt that any plea to government will see them alter their intended course of regulating vaping to extinction as each party is ONLY interested in a 4 year forecast when they first obtain the PM seat & this reduces to 3 years,2 years etc as their tenure in office diminishes,ready for the final year where they emit lie after lie until they gauge the reaction of the public as favourable,then they embellish that lie with further wondrous statements of intent as they are desperate to continue in office.If they're successful in their quest to remain in office,they rarely honour their promises as they originally stated,instead they tweak their wording so as to completely change its meaning,and THEN say that is what they said all along.That is why so many of the general public are choosing to vote for apathy,they're convinced that no matter who gets into government,it won't change a bloody thing.

I have tried writing to my MP(sorry we're too busy atm to be bothered in a mere mortal like you was the meaning of the reply)I have signed petitions(like many others)that prove what we say about vaping to be true,I have read many scientific studies that show vaping to be safer than tobacco,I have watched various MP's/MEP's/EU Councils/Lords debates where the evidence has been presented,read by these politicians & then COMPLETELY ignored as they can ONLY see that their comfortable revenue streams are dropping,and that means this government won't have the cash to pay back "our" debt which will mean Cameron/Osborne & friends won't get on TV with their smug faces saying "WE'VE reduced your debt" and the "WE'RE all in this together" might actually be true because the millionaires on the front bench might actually have to go without something, like the rest of us do on a daily basis.

 

[BuffaloVapes]

I don't think the loss of revenue from tax on tobacco will be as devastating as the govt might think; I would estimate that around 70% of newbies in my town didn't get their regular fag/tobacco from legitimate retailers. These all agree that, even though they never paid full price for their stinkys, they would still be making a saving by vaping. If this is the case, surely it should also be taken into account that the govt. a) won't be loosing out on the revenue as much as originally thought and b) will be saving on fighting illegal fags/tobacco.

Actually, I think the deficit created by vaping is a very significant threat and that revenue will have to be found from somewhere. Remember vaping is ever growing and soon (if not already) it will go past the point of no return because too many people support it. How the deficit will be made up and where it comes from is the big question. Will it be a tax hike on Nicotine, A deal with pharma/regulation pushing out the cottage industrialists that created it, A special taxation on vendors or will it just be found subversively from a wider range of luxury goods or a simple budget shakeup to fix the books. I know one thing, somebody's gonna get it!

The video brought to us by @whipitup is an extremely interesting way to look at the numbers and peripheral effects of the vaping industry outside of taxation, especially as it turns positive individual benefits into negative revenue for government. This includes the wider, long term effects of a healthier public being potentially far more expensive in the long run than just the taxes on tobacco! Nice touch whipitup. I know one thing for sure, we're gonna be screwed when the chinese perfect the electronic beer..

 

[AndyC1971]

What I really dont understand and get is, lets say we believe the government, and the fact that they want us to use NRT, lets say we do, and everyone in the land gives up smoking, now they are truly fucked! Zero revenue, so this goes back to Rogers argument about the fact that this is all down to money and not the health of us mere mortals!

 

[whipitup]

What I really dont understand and get is, lets say we believe the government, and the fact that they want us to use NRT, lets say we do, and everyone in the land gives up smoking, now they are truly fucked! Zero revenue, so this goes back to Rogers argument about the fact that this is all down to money and not the health of us mere mortals!

The thing is, NRT doesn't bloody work, and they know it, so they can recommend it all they like, safe in the knowledge that we will end up smoking again.

It sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I do believe it is all about the money, and I'm sorry to say we are probably fucked - one way or another.

Given the right moment (when I am certain) I'm going to buy 2 more ltres of 72mg nic base, a couple more decent RBA's and mech mod and make it all last as long as possible.

I'm also NEVER voting ever again, each party (including Ukip) are as bad as each other and nothing will change no matter who we vote for.

 

[Chegs]

I'm also NEVER voting ever again, each party (including Ukip) are as bad as each other and nothing will change no matter who we vote for.

One word....Apathy.

Caused by all flavours of politics being served by politicians ONLY interested in "what do we gain from it" not,"what would the people who voted for us like" It actually disgusts me that as a nation,we're now more likely to vote for the celebrity politician than the political politician.The PM's job should be to serve the best interests of the whole country,not as we're seeing more & more,whatever serves their purpose.

 

[VaperCaper]

The thing is, NRT doesn't bloody work, and they know it, so they can recommend it all they like, safe in the knowledge that we will end up smoking again.

That way lies conspiracy tin foil hattedness, cynicism and apathy.

In the longer term smoking is a net drain on society. Politicians also have to be 'seen to be trying to do the right thing'.

It might well be true that they know NRT is poor, and politicians tend to think in the short term only 'what will effect my chances of getting and staying elected for the next decade' but if a politician is seen to be actively voting for something that is provably damaging to public health by enough of the voting public it's not going to go well for them.

E-cigs are a game changer. Brand new disruptive technology. Up till now what other option was there for people to quit smoking? None. All they had was 'quit or die' and they could happily impose ever more tax increases safe in the knowledge that no matter what they did to the cost of a pack of 20 fags, about 20% of the population would still buy them, and about 10% of the population died off early from smoking related disease.

They are going to get taxed. More than likely heavily (see Italy's SuperTax) BUT we live in a single EU market and the same thing will happen in any member state that imposes a high tax burden while other neighbouring states have a low(er) tax, we just buy it from somewhere else, and then the UK loses much bigger.

I'm really optimistic about the future of e-cigs and vaping. We have the science on our side (Pharma and other interested parties have been trying to find 'the magic bullet' study that proves vaping is bad for you and they quietly try to not announce the results of study after study that they have funded that proves otherwise) we have growing numbers of voting people on our side, and a lot of vapers are getting very political. Social media is now being used to organise political events in ways that the old guard politicians can't get their heads around AND there is a UK General Election coming up and politicians off all types are shit scared about not getting elected.

We have them by the short and curlies frankly.

Unless some unforseen huge health issue comes to light - smoking tobacco will be an anachronism within a generation. You can't halt progress. "Gravity always wins"

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

Anyone read the report I posted by the WHO that said in order to bring smoking levels down by 2025(ior 2050 cant remember!) of 1/3 (or roughly those numbers)that pretty much the only way to do it was increase tax on it? Tax is NOT a preventative measure. Its never been proven that rising the cost of cigs, stops people from smoking. It didnt for me? nad I was paying $8 a pack in the US and $9.83 a pack in this country.

It is a measure to make poor people poorer and bring more money back into the folds for the people who dont give a shit about the poor

 

[whipitup]

Anyone read the report I posted by the WHO that said in order to bring smoking levels down by 2025(ior 2050 cant remember!) of 1/3 (or roughly those numbers)that pretty much the only way to do it was increase tax on it? Tax is NOT a preventative measure. Its never been proven that rising the cost of cigs, stops people from smoking. It didnt for me? nad I was paying $8 a pack in the US and $9.83 a pack in this country.

It is a measure to make poor people poorer and bring more money back into the folds for the people who dont give a shit about the poor

I'm offended................I always read your posts!