E-mail From E-liquids - Ban Disposables

[MarylinC37]

nobody specifically banned them. they are banned by default by the trpr rules.

But their widespread availability shows that a conventional ban isn't workable unless you have the means to enforce it.

I have never in my lifetime known the government be prepared to put the necessary resources into going around all the shops and making sure they are only selling legal products - and they never will.

That doesn't mean there aren't other ways the government can acheive the same result. Hence the tax idea.

There have been many instances in the past where they have used tax as one of their favourite blunt force weapons to shape public behaviour.

You want people to vape instead of smoke. Easy! Chuck lots of tax on cigarettes and leave conventional vape products alone and you create a tax incentive for people to choose vaping over smoking.

If a particular vape product becomes a problem like disposables. Easy! Stick enough tax on them to make them the same price as a pack of 20 cigs. You create a tax incentive for people to move away from disposables and choose cheaper and less problematic vape products.

In the process you also scare retailers away from stocking illegal disposables in case they get reported to HMRC.

I know people get worried and a bit paranoid about the possibility of them taxing other vape products. That's where we need the vape industry leaders to step up to lobby the government about the benefit of providing that tax incentive to get people to vape instead of smoke and make sure any tax is specifically only targeted to combat the problems caused by the disposable market.

 

[vapervince]

But their widespread availability shows that a conventional ban isn't workable unless you have the means to enforce it.

I have never in my lifetime known the government be prepared to put the necessary resources into going around all the shops and making sure they are only selling legal products - and they never will.

That doesn't mean there aren't other ways the government can acheive the same result. Hence the tax idea.

There have been many instances in the past where they have used tax as one of their favourite blunt force weapons to shape public behaviour.

You want people to vape instead of smoke. Easy! Chuck lots of tax on cigarettes and leave conventional vape products alone and you create a tax incentive for people to choose vaping over smoking.

If a particular vape product becomes a problem like disposables. Easy! Stick enough tax on them to make them the same price as a pack of 20 cigs. You create a tax incentive for people to move away from disposables and choose cheaper and less problematic vape products.

In the process you also scare retailers away from stocking illegal disposables in case they get reported to HMRC.

I know people get worried and a bit paranoid about the possibility of them taxing other vape products. That's where we need the vape industry leaders to step up to lobby the government about the benefit of providing that tax incentive to get people to vape instead of smoke and make sure any tax is specifically only targeted to combat the problems caused by the disposable market.

I dont know about that, have you tried to get a decent pair of Levi knock offs lately, all the shops are shit scared of holding stock, you have to find a Del Boy

 

[MarylinC37]

No problem!

 

[Toby iVapour]

.. there are still suppliers selling to kids which is what we dont want.

But bear in mind -

"Research ignores that most [youth] usage is experimental," he [Dr. Roberto A Sussman] said. "Frequent vapers tend to be those who have tried tobacco and/ or smoking. The vaping youth epidemic is a political construct."

http://www.drinkanddrugsnews.com/igniting-the-debate/

Also to add (asked to Louise Ross, chair of the NNA) -

What do you feel is not working regarding THR in the UK right now?
The moral panic about youth use is undermining the confidence that people once had in vaping. We need better enforcement of existing regulation, and a more responsible approach to marketing from industry.

https://www.ecigclick.co.uk/louise-ross-nna-chair-chats-to-ecigclick/

 

[Simon G]

Regardless of anything else all this just looks bad for vaping. It feels like when things are moving forward the industry as a whole shoots itself in the foot, scores an own goal and sets things back again.

Plastic disposable vapes was always an awful idea in a world where even McDonalds has stopped using plastic disposable straws.. and it's causing a massive distraction.

did you read this article too @Toby iVapour ?

https://www.drinkanddrugsnews.com/four-in-ten-smokers-believe-vaping-is-as-harmful/

"Just under 40 per cent of smokers in the UK think that vaping is ‘as or more risky’ compared to smoking, according to a YouGov survey of almost 12,300 adults commissioned by ASH.

Last year, just 27 per cent of smokers believed this to be the case."

We've somehow gone from vaping just starting to be understood, vape shops in hospitals, fully tested and trusted e-liquids available in supermarkets and positive yearly steps forward to ..... wherever we are now, trying to ban plastic sticks full of whatever and vaping being seen in a negative light yet again.

I don't have a dog in this fight any more, I've given up ... in 'despair' ...to be honest because it's just so fucking depressing.

 

[Toby iVapour]

did you read this article too @Toby iVapour ?
https://www.drinkanddrugsnews.com/four-in-ten-smokers-believe-vaping-is-as-harmful/
"Just under 40 per cent of smokers in the UK think that vaping is ‘as or more risky’ compared to smoking, according to a YouGov survey of almost 12,300 adults commissioned by ASH.
Last year, just 27 per cent of smokers believed this to be the case."

Not sure I've read that actual article, but certainly some similar...

This report from ASH goes into more detail -
https://ash.org.uk/uploads/Addressing-common-myths-about-vaping-ASH-brief.pdf

 

[zouzounaki]

WTF?

So an increased black market would be easier to police?
I don't follow that logic...

yes, because if shops are banned from stocking disposables at all they’re going to be much less likely to have 15ml 50mg ones under the counter.

Not surprising - as there are more than 40 countries that have some type of ban on vaping—either on possession and use, sales, or importation, or a combination, and coupled with a massive increase in negative vape propaganda (including misinformation & lies) this year in the UK, ban phobia is here to stay.

i think this is true, but it is over simplistic. there is huge negative press against disposables at the minute, the scottish government talking about banning them but at the same time this doesn’t extend to non disposable vape products. they see the value and benefits of them. but the longer it goes on and the more negative propaganda is spewed out by the papers and mainstream news, the more the negativity will spread and become generalised anti-vape sentiment, imo.

 

[Simon G]

Not sure I've read that actual article, but certainly some similar...

This report from ASH goes into more detail -
https://ash.org.uk/uploads/Addressing-common-myths-about-vaping-ASH-brief.pdf

yeah, I had a quick skim. It's hard to believe we are still having to talk about stuff like this. I honestly thought it had been put to bed years ago, when Cancer charities came out in support of vaping.

 

[zouzounaki]

yeah, I had a quick skim. It's hard to believe we are still having to talk about stuff like this. I honestly thought it had been put to bed years ago, when Cancer charities came out in support of vaping.

it’s got much worse the last year or so. i had smokers outside work a couple of weeks ago talking about popcorn lung and how much of a terrible cough and sore chest reaction they get from vaping, after trying a few disposables. they were convinced, it’s deadly, really bad for you.

 

[Simon G]

yes, because if shops are banned from stocking disposables at all they’re going to be much less likely to have 15ml 50mg ones under the counter.

i think this is true, but it is over simplistic. there is huge negative press against disposables at the minute, the scottish government talking about banning them but at the same time this doesn’t extend to non disposable vape products. they see the value and benefits of them. but the longer it goes on and the more negative propaganda is spewed out by the papers and mainstream news, the more the negativity will spread and become generalised anti-vape sentiment, imo.

Just another load of shit to deal with.... so far in my time vaping we've had:

E-liquid being made in baths, sheds and filthy conditions scandals
People blowing holes in their faces/legs/ceilings with mech mods and/or fake batteries
TPD (the good and the bad)
Small UK e-liquid manufacturers going out of business
(and a load of other toss I must have forgotten)

..... there's always something going on. It's really quite staggering how many times people can try to fuck everything up.