EU Proposes Effective Ban on E-Cigarette Cartridges/Eliquid

[AnnaLaw]

I've said it before and I'll say it again....stock up your freezer with nic base and feck em.

Stock up just before the ban comes in then and if you have enough it may last 5 years.
But this has to pass the European Parliament first and there is zero logic, common-sense, scientific evidence or reason to ban ecig liquid and allow the really dangerous cigarettes.

Better to arrange a meeting with your MEP at his surgery, write him a letter, write him a snail-mail letter with recorded delivery, contact local media, contact national media, get it on radio and TV, educate MPs and MEPs who know nothing about vaping. See them in their clinics and take your vaping gear with you so you can tell your story and demonstrate.

I know that means actually doing something but doing nothing and relying on Big Tobacco to get all the market by making it a medical device (mens they seperate nicotine from quiting and that could open a can of worms in theire favour) will not help us. I don't want to buy Malboro flavour vapesticks from a tobacco counter where the'yre next to cigarettes. I want my coffee, strawberry, RY4 and all the rest and I want more smokers to stop smoking (not to stop nicotine use in a few weeks).

It matters to some people that if this directive is passed the first door to quitting smoking for those who can't or don't want to give up nicotine will be closed because Big Pharma wants the only choice to be 'quit everything but their products or die). Big Pharma makes more money out of sick smokers than any quit products.
I know, I've been researching them on cancer drugs amongst others, because of a friend who is slowly dieing because of drugs she was prescribed.

 

[Bryan123456]

I would not place too much faith in the European Parliament: the EU is not a democracy; Commissioners are appointed by politicians and it is a sinecure - a place on the gravy train. All the Commissioners and Commissions are required to do is 'take into account the views of the European Parliament': in 'taking into account' they can (and frequently have) completely ignored or contravened these 'views' even where there have been substantial majorities in voting. This also explains why corruption and bribery are commonplace - reach the Commissioner or a high ranking unelected official within a Commission and influence can sometimes be bought. Even where no bribery or corruption is involved influence can be gained and local, personal and national self interest appealed to. It is a 'rotten borough'.

 

[EthelKing]

I've got to say that if the choice of "licenced" fluid manufacturer is Big Pharma or Big Tobacco, I'd much rather go with big tobacco. At least they are consumer focused rather than cure focused.

Of course, I will do whatever I need to do to secure decent, safe supplies. If that sees me on the wrong side of the line, so be it.

 

[Bryan123456]

...
I know that means actually doing something but doing nothing and relying on Big Tobacco to get all the market by making it a medical device (mens they seperate nicotine from quiting and that could open a can of worms in theire favour) will not help us. I don't want to buy Malboro flavour vapesticks from a tobacco counter where the'yre next to cigarettes. I want my coffee, strawberry, RY4 and all the rest and I want more smokers to stop smoking (not to stop nicotine use in a few weeks). ...

why would Big Tobacco want to make vaping 'medical'? They may wish to have a few products that are licenced and available as NRTs and thus prescribable. However - it is in their interest that the vast majority of smokers (in the UK circa 10M) sample and switch to e cigs and continue to use their products. That way they build a sales base and a replacement revenue stream for cigarette sales. They will want their products available to the widest possible market through the widest possible number of sales outlets - not confined to chemists.

NHS efforts have changed from completely quitting to tobacco harm reduction and vaping fits well with this. If it is available through corner shops and supermarkets that's a quit smoking methodology that is sell bought and self administered and to the NHS - cheap. Long term effects of vaping are not known, but most of the substances are benign. Nicotine in the sort of small levels vaped is not harmful, vaping is less harmful than smoking in a magnitude of hundreds. I would also be amazed if HMG has not got its eye on this as something, when established it can slap Excise Duty on. Of course there will be some pompous speeches about the need for research, the need to put something away to mitigate against long term effects etc etc but in reality the dosh would go into the Treasury slush pot to fund their grandiose schemes.

 

[steffijade]

Stock up just before the ban comes in then and if you have enough it may last 5 years.
But this has to pass the European Parliament first and there is zero logic, common-sense, scientific evidence or reason to ban ecig liquid and allow the really dangerous cigarettes.

Better to arrange a meeting with your MEP at his surgery, write him a letter, write him a snail-mail letter with recorded delivery, contact local media, contact national media, get it on radio and TV, educate MPs and MEPs who know nothing about vaping. See them in their clinics and take your vaping gear with you so you can tell your story and demonstrate.

I know that means actually doing something but doing nothing and relying on Big Tobacco to get all the market by making it a medical device (mens they seperate nicotine from quiting and that could open a can of worms in theire favour) will not help us. I don't want to buy Malboro flavour vapesticks from a tobacco counter where the'yre next to cigarettes. I want my coffee, strawberry, RY4 and all the rest and I want more smokers to stop smoking (not to stop nicotine use in a few weeks).

It matters to some people that if this directive is passed the first door to quitting smoking for those who can't or don't want to give up nicotine will be closed because Big Pharma wants the only choice to be 'quit everything but their products or die). Big Pharma makes more money out of sick smokers than any quit products.
I know, I've been researching them on cancer drugs amongst others, because of a friend who is slowly dieing because of drugs she was prescribed.

I can appreciate what you're saying and I applaud your enthusiasm.

Personally, I've become very jaded and cynical regarding the political process. Politicians will do exactly what they want to do (which is normally follow the 'party line' to preserve their own positions). Whilst protests are noble, it's my belief they will fall on deaf ears. If the proposals regarding vaping become law then the only effective countermeasure will probably be to try and counter it in the courtroom.

The anti smoking lobby are quite peeved with the rise in vaping because they see it as a way of subverting their control and they will more than likely fight strongly to try and ban/control it. You only have to look at their current stance to see what I mean : They can't prove vaping is harmful and despite the possibility of it being much safer than smoking, it goes against their reason daitre to support THR. They want to see the eradication of smoking (and anything that resembles it). Because they can't prove vaping is harmful, they've moved onto their bullshit 'gateway theory' of vaping becoming a stepping stone to smoking.

There is no reasoning with these zealots because their primary focus has nothing to do with helping smokers to be healthier... it's all about power, control and the demonisation/vilification of anyone who smokes (or does anything that resembles smoking).

If you feel it will help to write to politicians then go right ahead... I sincerely hope that it does helps.

How many people were on the streets protesting against invading Iraq? How many protested against government cuts to the public sector? How many people have/are protesting against cuts to welfare that will hit the most vulnerable?

Have the politicians listened to any of these people and changed policies because it might be the 'right'/moral/ethical thing to do?

Politicians have little or no concern with morals, ethics or doing the 'right' thing, so I have no faith in them any more.

Hence my repeated suggestions to stock up.

The stocks I have will last for a good few years and after that, if I'm forced to engage in 'criminal' activity to replenish them then so be it.

It's not just the EU... the MHRA will be stepping up to the plate in the spring too, so restrictions may happen sooner than you think.

I say don't trust the powers that be to do the right thing.... do the right thing now, yourself... while you can still do so legally.

 

[EthelKing]

I think you may have said what I am going to say in a previous post Bryan - so sorry if I repeat it, but this is my thinking:

BAT have bought intellicig recently. This will be because of one of two things. To wind the company down and get rid of it - unlikely; or, they will use it to gain a foothold in the UK market and switch a large part of their resources and efforts into manufacturing vaping paraphernalia and selling it to a mass market which is largely untapped - save for us hardcore of vapers and our vendors. This makes more sense to me, seeing as smokers have been made to be perceived as the reason for the global economy crisis, the health service failing, flash flooding, rain in August, snow in April and generally looking "shifty"! This is an opportunity for the Big Boys to bring vaping out of the periphery and into the mainstream with B&H, Marlboro, Superkings, Embassy, Silk Cut etc. juices - and I would wager a nice plain juice for those of us who don't want any flavour. Fags come in different "strengths" - so would the juices. The tobacco industry will now have a "caring" attitude and will gain business by conversion. They have the resources and expertise to ensure that advertising will be very effective...

The MHRA will announce that it is not acceptable for every man and his dog mixing potions in their coal shed and selling them on to an wholly ignorant and helpless public who have no knowledge of vaping per se - even though a fairly large number are walking around with nuclear powered marital aids hanging out of their mouths and have forums to discuss everything from A to Z.

They will introduce requirements for juices to be tested for purity and quality (easily done by commercial labs) and will hand everything over to Trading Standards to enforce. Trading standards will enforce the juice quality issues and the consumer safety of electronic devices (the latter of which they do in any case). I wouldn't be at all surprised if the manufacture of juices for sale which are made in a non-commercial premises are governed by rules similar to those that govern the production of food in a domestic kitchen for sale in commercial premises or to the public. Juice hygiene certificates and all that.

There are regulations governing what strength of nicotine can be bought and sold without a licence, there are consumer laws regarding electrical safety, distance selling etc. They just need to be consolidated into a manual of vaping policing for those that will do it.

The European Directive would then be ignored in favour of the UK rules and regulations that are put in place as a result of the MHRA's decision.

I don't think the "domestic" juice mixers have much to worry about. Maybe a bit more paperwork and record keeping, if they aren't already. At the end of the day, if TS were overseeing production etc. it should cost no more than it does to go to the local college and get your food hygiene certificate, and all base juice manufacturers should be able to provide the necessary analysis reports - as do flavourings manufacturers. Juice gurus of the Planet REJOICE!

Not sure how modders would get on - if it were regulated, I would definitely pack up - purely because what I do is a hobby and nothing more - and my tin mods disappearing would make no difference to anything! )

Well, that's what the optimistic side of me says! In the meantime, I will be stocking up on legit' base juice supplies whilst looking at the more "grey" areas of supply!

 

[Bryan123456]

I think it might prove very difficult to police or enforce policing of modders. All someone would have to do is produce an electrical device that worked from a 510 connector and might benefit from VV - a personal fan for example and 'Bobs yer uncle' it is a fan controller / battery box. The emphasis, as you have indicated above, will be on e liquids and nicotine base and, to be honest, some form of legislation is overdue. Lets hope it is 'light touch' and not debilitating or excessively expensive.

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

So I sent a letter off to all of the government officials that I could possibly think of. I got a response from our local councillor...she obviously has no effect on the EU directive, but she stated she does not support the ban as she knows many people who use them and have successfully quit smoking with them. She has agreed to forward the letter and her response to the Director of Public Health for our area and ask the she reply with her thoughts on the matter. If all is positive, I will try to enlist her help in opposing the ban as well. The councillor said she will also be sending a letter opposing the ban

 

[Bryan123456]

There is a 2 year window to formulate a response to this - there's a 4 year consultation period. Whilst writing to MPs etc will raise political awareness of vaping, on the occasions in the past where the EU has had to accede to its citizens wishes, this has been achieved by concerted, harmonious cross border consumer cooperation and a fairly uniform and consistent message.

I don't know how this could be achieved, but there are big communities of vapers in Germany, Poland and Greece and hopefully, once the experts within the vaping communities have deliberated (I will be awaiting an official ECITA response), a concerted EU wide response and methodology for managing this will be formulated.

 

[KulrMeStoopid]

I have a hard time accepting a lax a daisy approach to something so important to our lives....


Take no action and get what we dont want.


Take action and get a possibility to achieve what we want.