how do you feel about masks

[TheLiqidator]

Sounds like your "local's" landlord / manager don't know what the fuck he is doing, rather than something to do with the government rules / duty income.

There ar 5 pubs about me where I've been to them all and they all massively vary. Yesterday I was told "you can leave your contact details on the app, but you don't have to, but you should" sounded a bit like the old "got to work, but don't go to work, but go to work if you can". I'm not expecting a bespoke set of guidelines for each individual pub but if the guidelines are there and done the job there would be more consistency rather than places picking and choosing what ones they deem important.

Anyway, my original point was that pubs was that opening with lesser restrictions than other places, the money coming in from them/going out to the furloughed staff would definitely have been a contributing factor to the decision to open them the way they have. Not disagreeing with it, theres not an endless pot of cash. Just saying with the average pub putting £135k to £140k in taxes every year they would have considered that.

 

[iqon]

Mask worn for 1st time today - and found out later it was upside down. lol........never mind I`ll know for next time.....

 

[Badboybez]

There ar 5 pubs about me where I've been to them all and they all massively vary. Yesterday I was told "you can leave your contact details on the app, but you don't have to, but you should" sounded a bit like the old "got to work, but don't go to work, but go to work if you can". I'm not expecting a bespoke set of guidelines for each individual pub but if the guidelines are there and done the job there would be more consistency rather than places picking and choosing what ones they deem important.

The pub where you say you were told "you can leave your contact details on the app, but you don't have to, but you should" the landlord is obviously a complete dickhead that either does not know, or does not understand, and does not apply the rules. The contact details being left is the most important, and only rule that MUST be followed.
The guidelines apply to all pubs, large, and small, both serving food, and wet bars only, but the guidelines have an "as far as practicable" aspect to them (which has applied to business premises for decades) so you will not find all pubs following exactly
I could give you plenty of examples of differences in the pubs local to myself, but they all comply with the guidelines by one method, or another.

Anyway, my original point was that pubs was that opening with lesser restrictions than other places, the money coming in from them/going out to the furloughed staff would definitely have been a contributing factor to the decision to open them the way they have. Not disagreeing with it, theres not an endless pot of cash. Just saying with the average pub putting £135k to £140k in taxes every year they would have considered that.

There are several flaws in your logic here.
Firstly you keep saying about the alcohol duty the government is losing from pubs, you seem to have missed the fact that most people who drink (myself included) would simply have bought more alcohol from shops, and supermarkets, while the pubs were shut, in fact I myself, and my OH spent more on alcohol. so the amount of duty paid by them would have risen proportionately, I would imagine the alcohol duty received by the government would have been similar.

Even the furloughing of staff you are talking about is very unlikely correct, a lot of pub staff are not full time employees, they are on zero hours contracts (Wetherspoon's) unemployed (as they can do up to 16hrs a week, and keep their benefits) casual labour (no tax, no records) etc.
I would imagine that the entire Wetherspoon's staff in the UK would not have been on furlough, as I know three people who worked at the local one, and they were simply sacked.

I think the reason the pubs were opened first was for public morale, don't forget even in WW2 the pubs were not closed.
Any way restaurants opened at the same time, and all retail shops shortly after.

 

[TheLiqidator]

The pub where you say you were told "you can leave your contact details on the app, but you don't have to, but you should" the landlord is obviously a complete dickhead that either does not know, or does not understand, and does not apply the rules. The contact details being left is the most important, and only rule that MUST be followed.
The guidelines apply to all pubs, large, and small, both serving food, and wet bars only, but the guidelines have an "as far as practicable" aspect to them (which has applied to business premises for decades) so you will not find all pubs following exactly
I could give you plenty of examples of differences in the pubs local to myself, but they all comply with the guidelines by one method, or another.



There are several flaws in your logic here.
Firstly you keep saying about the alcohol duty the government is losing from pubs, you seem to have missed the fact that most people who drink (myself included) would simply have bought more alcohol from shops, and supermarkets, while the pubs were shut, in fact I myself, and my OH spent more on alcohol. so the amount of duty paid by them would have risen proportionately, I would imagine the alcohol duty received by the government would have been similar.

Even the furloughing of staff you are talking about is very unlikely correct, a lot of pub staff are not full time employees, they are on zero hours contracts (Wetherspoon's) unemployed (as they can do up to 16hrs a week, and keep their benefits) casual labour (no tax, no records) etc.
I would imagine that the entire Wetherspoon's staff in the UK would not have been on furlough, as I know three people who worked at the local one, and they were simply sacked.

I think the reason the pubs were opened first was for public morale, don't forget even in WW2 the pubs were not closed.
Any way restaurants opened at the same time, and all retail shops shortly after.

They are having to look at the guidelines again and how they're being adhered to. That tells you right there that there's an issue with them.

Wetherspoons staff that were furloughed and on zero hours contacts were paid their 80% of their average wage over the 3 months prior to lockdown coming in. They're pretty much business as usual, one of my locals is a wetherspoons and there's very little changed and the changes are all optional.

I'm not saying it was only about the money, I'm saying it was part of the decision.

 

[iqon]

I bought NO alcohol during Lockdown & the pub I go to are Advertising for staff

 

[zouzounaki]

@TheLiqidator is right that revenue and consideration of furlough costs was a factor in pubs reopening. but the other massive factor and possibly the biggest,
that i don’t think has been mentioned, is lobbying and pressure from the hospitality and alcohol industries.

the alcohol industry has always held massive influence over governments. why else do you
think off sales were allowed to stay open, or pubs to operate as take aways for drink?

there’s an interesting article here that looks at this in a bit of detail.

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.c...ic-proves-opportunity-for-industry-power-grab

 

[mick brown]

Just been to aldi. Most people are wearing masks but social distancing is out of the window [emoji34]
It seems most people think that if you have a mask on you don't have to stay away from each other. [emoji35]

 

[Badboybez]

They are having to look at the guidelines again and how they're being adhered to. That tells you right there that there's an issue with them.

Have you got a link to a news article where you learnt of this ?
I ask because although a have been a pubaholic for the last 45 years I have not heard anything about it.
Did a quick web search to see if I could find any news, but the only thing was a on the Gov website about the existing guidelines from 04 July.
Link below if anyone is interested.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working...-19/restaurants-offering-takeaway-or-delivery

Wetherspoons staff that were furloughed and on zero hours contacts were paid their 80% of their average wage over the 3 months prior to lockdown coming in. They're pretty much business as usual, one of my locals is a wetherspoons and there's very little changed and the changes are all optional.

I'm not saying it was only about the money, I'm saying it was part of the decision.

Nice opening, "Wetherspoons staff that were furloughed" below is a link to an article in the Guardian about Wetherspoons.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...denies-abandoning-staff-in-coronavirus-crisis

Now you see, here's the rub, if Wetherspoons sacked all of its staff on the night the Government said that pubs were to close at the end of that evening, then no one was furloughed, see you can only be furloughed if you are employed, get my drift here ?
I have no doubt that they did furlough some staff, the managers, in the main. As I said I have three friends who worked there, they were all sacked that night. Might well be business as usual in your local "Spoons" but I bet most of the bartenders, table waiters, and grill cooks are new.

Regarding finances alcohol duty, one of your main points earlier, in an article that Zouz posted a short while ago it stated that while the pubs were closed that supermarket sales of alcohol had risen by 33% and off licences (such as my corner shop) rose by 21% so that rather backs up my theory that overall excise duty has stayed roughly the same.

 

[Badboybez]

the pub I go to are Advertising for staff

That's my point mate the pubs have needed new staff, because there were few that were actually furloughed.
A lot of pub workers, particularly in smaller pubs were part time.
For example a relation of mine was unemployed, but we was allowed to do up to 16 hours of work a week in a pub without affecting his benefit. So he could not be furloughed as you can't furlough someone who is unemployed.

 

[TheLiqidator]

Have you got a link to a news article where you learnt of this ?
I ask because although a have been a pubaholic for the last 45 years I have not heard anything about it.
Did a quick web search to see if I could find any news, but the only thing was a on the Gov website about the existing guidelines from 04 July.
Link below if anyone is interested.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working...-19/restaurants-offering-takeaway-or-delivery



Nice opening, "Wetherspoons staff that were furloughed" below is a link to an article in the Guardian about Wetherspoons.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...denies-abandoning-staff-in-coronavirus-crisis

Now you see, here's the rub, if Wetherspoons sacked all of its staff on the night the Government said that pubs were to close at the end of that evening, then no one was furloughed, see you can only be furloughed if you are employed, get my drift here ?
I have no doubt that they did furlough some staff, the managers, in the main. As I said I have three friends who worked there, they were all sacked that night. Might well be business as usual in your local "Spoons" but I bet most of the bartenders, table waiters, and grill cooks are new.

Regarding finances alcohol duty, one of your main points earlier, in an article that Zouz posted a short while ago it stated that while the pubs were closed that supermarket sales of alcohol had risen by 33% and off licences (such as my corner shop) rose by 21% so that rather backs up my theory that overall excise duty has stayed roughly the same.

The part about then relooking at guidelines as they're not being adhered to was said during a q&a session. My locals all have all of the same staff, I can't speak for every single pub but every one where I live all have the same staff.

I have no doubt that the supermarkets and off sales sold more during lockdown. I know I bought a load more but there's no way the increase there was equivalent to what pubs would have paid in that time.