Lithium Polymer Batteries

[WeeBaldMan]

A reference point would be great. We dont have much information on batteries on the Wiki yet!

I've started this thread, it should give me a base to work from;

http://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/f...-info-for-the-wiki-please?p=187712#post187712

 

[ScottChensoda]

The difference between Lithium-ion batteries and Lithium Polymer batteries lies in the material used as the separator. Rather than an inert substance with holes covered in electrolyte, the separator is made of a micro-porous polymer covered in an electrolytic gel that also serves as a catalyst that reduces the energy barrier in the chemical reaction between cathode and anode. Therefore, Li-Polymer batteries allow for a slight increase in energy density. However, this advantage is offset by a 10% to 30% cost increase. Therefore, because the same materials are used for cathode and anode, Li-Polymer batteries follow the same chemical process as Li-Ion batteries and so are not a distinct class.

Because the solid polymer is flexible, it is possible to construct flexible batteries and batteries that can be easily formed into various shapes and sizes, even thin films. So you'll most often see Li-Poly used for batteries which are relatively thin (e.g. Nokia's 'hero' BP-4L battery used in a dozen devices) or oddly shaped (e.g. to fit round other components in a tightly packed phone).


Just as with Li-Ion batteries though, Li-Polymer batteries are slowly degrading from the day they are created, and are subject to the same harm caused by deep-discharges.

The faster you charge a lithium battery of any kind the less charge it takes which is obviously reflected in the runtime and its life-cycle.

The world's APV scene is designed around the basic dimensions and circuitry of Li-ion batteries.

Compared to the lithium-ion battery Li-poly is less advantageous in terms of life cycle degradation rate.

Lithium polymer-specific chargers are required in order to avoid fire and explosion.

Explosions can also occur if the battery is short-circuited, as tremendous current passes through the cell in an instant. Radio-control enthusiasts take special precautions to ensure their battery leads are properly connected and insulated. Furthermore fires can occur if the cell or pack is punctured.

Although very similar, I'm not sure the vaping world is for ready Li-Po batteries just yet.

Maybe next year if nanowire battery technology continues to advance as it has done the last two years.

 

[Purplefowler]

The difference between Lithium-ion batteries and Lithium Polymer batteries lies in the material used as the separator. Rather than an inert substance with holes covered in electrolyte, the separator is made of a micro-porous polymer covered in an electrolytic gel that also serves as a catalyst that reduces the energy barrier in the chemical reaction between cathode and anode. Therefore, Li-Polymer batteries allow for a slight increase in energy density. However, this advantage is offset by a 10% to 30% cost increase. Therefore, because the same materials are used for cathode and anode, Li-Polymer batteries follow the same chemical process as Li-Ion batteries and so are not a distinct class.

Because the solid polymer is flexible, it is possible to construct flexible batteries and batteries that can be easily formed into various shapes and sizes, even thin films. So you'll most often see Li-Poly used for batteries which are relatively thin (e.g. Nokia's 'hero' BP-4L battery used in a dozen devices) or oddly shaped (e.g. to fit round other components in a tightly packed phone).


Just as with Li-Ion batteries though, Li-Polymer batteries are slowly degrading from the day they are created, and are subject to the same harm caused by deep-discharges.

The faster you charge a lithium battery of any kind the less charge it takes which is obviously reflected in the runtime and its life-cycle.

The world's APV scene is designed around the basic dimensions and circuitry of Li-ion batteries.

Compared to the lithium-ion battery Li-poly is less advantageous in terms of life cycle degradation rate.

Lithium polymer-specific chargers are required in order to avoid fire and explosion.

Explosions can also occur if the battery is short-circuited, as tremendous current passes through the cell in an instant. Radio-control enthusiasts take special precautions to ensure their battery leads are properly connected and insulated. Furthermore fires can occur if the cell or pack is punctured.

Although very similar, I'm not sure the vaping world is for ready Li-Po batteries just yet.

Maybe next year if nanowire battery technology continues to advance as it has done the last two years.

you lost me at "the..."

 

[Barracuda]

you lost me at "the..."

me too lol.

 

[ScottChensoda]

I've only ever seen these in high end mods using a DNA chip. But coming to think about it, what battery chemistry does the MVP use!?

Also, Good to see another RC'er on here! Welcome

I see the MVP has in-built protection Raggers so I'm guessing it holds an ICR unprotected battery.

 

[Raguri]

I see the MVP has in-built protection Raggers so I'm guessing it holds an ICR unprotected battery.

Aaaah okay
But yeah, seen it a couple of times in custom builds, mainly as they're smaller and more powerful than our conventionals...
'pound for pound'... Or so the saying goes anyway.

The new Li-Fe batteries look nice though

 

[ScottChensoda]

@ PF 'n Cooda: Basically it means that there is little to choose between all the different types of lithium batteries. They all have pros and cons over one another. The vaping world settled on the Lithium-Cobalt battery originally in both its protected or unprotected states as being best fit for purpose. Though they weren't specifically designed with vaping in mind, as vaping drains or discharges the Cobalt battery at a rate uncomfortably near to its maximum discharge rate.

Then IMR or Lithium-Manganese batteries then entered the equation and although they do not have microchip safety circuitry, I.e. they are in fact unprotected insomuch as they are chemically designed differently to Cobalt batteries which makes them a lot safer to use. I do not use the term safe as no Lithium battery can be termed as safe. As an American vaper found out early last year when he lost his front teeth and a chunk of his tongue.

Using batteries and their charging systems correctly greatly reduces the chances of a mishap but that still doesn't cover a malfunction within the battery itself or a short circuit within the atomiser system. Another side of the coin is buying poorly made or unsafe items, whether it be re-covered batteries and/or poorly designed chargers.

It's not so much as being fearful but understanding how things work and having a healthy respect for the equipment you use and using it in a sensible manner.

Amen. Praise the lord and pass the biscuits.

 

[ScottChensoda]

Aaaah okay
But yeah, seen it a couple of times in custom builds, mainly as they're smaller and more powerful than our conventionals...
'pound for pound'... Or so the saying goes anyway.

The new Li-Fe batteries look nice though

Thanks for the wink but I'm happily married!

Lifepo4's are only 3.2v working to 3.6v peak so you should never charge them on a vaping charger because our chargers will try to charge them up to 4.2v. Not good. You need a smart charger for those.

 

[tartanthing]

I'm pretty sure I got this from a post I saw here, but in case my memory is failing me here it is again...
http://www.torchythebatteryboy.com/p/18650-batteries-chargers.html
this page has been invaluable for me choosing batts!

 

[WeeBaldMan]

The difference between Lithium-ion batteries and Lithium Polymer batteries lies in the material used as the separator. Rather than an inert substance with holes covered in electrolyte, the separator is made of a micro-porous polymer covered in an electrolytic gel that also serves as a catalyst that reduces the energy barrier in the chemical reaction between cathode and anode. Therefore, Li-Polymer batteries allow for a slight increase in energy density. However, this advantage is offset by a 10% to 30% cost increase. Therefore, because the same materials are used for cathode and anode, Li-Polymer batteries follow the same chemical process as Li-Ion batteries and so are not a distinct class.

Because the solid polymer is flexible, it is possible to construct flexible batteries and batteries that can be easily formed into various shapes and sizes, even thin films. So you'll most often see Li-Poly used for batteries which are relatively thin (e.g. Nokia's 'hero' BP-4L battery used in a dozen devices) or oddly shaped (e.g. to fit round other components in a tightly packed phone).


Just as with Li-Ion batteries though, Li-Polymer batteries are slowly degrading from the day they are created, and are subject to the same harm caused by deep-discharges.

The faster you charge a lithium battery of any kind the less charge it takes which is obviously reflected in the runtime and its life-cycle.

The world's APV scene is designed around the basic dimensions and circuitry of Li-ion batteries.

Compared to the lithium-ion battery Li-poly is less advantageous in terms of life cycle degradation rate.

Lithium polymer-specific chargers are required in order to avoid fire and explosion.

Explosions can also occur if the battery is short-circuited, as tremendous current passes through the cell in an instant. Radio-control enthusiasts take special precautions to ensure their battery leads are properly connected and insulated. Furthermore fires can occur if the cell or pack is punctured.

Although very similar, I'm not sure the vaping world is for ready Li-Po batteries just yet.

Maybe next year if nanowire battery technology continues to advance as it has done the last two years.

I'm fairly sure I've seen vaping kits advertise Lithium Polymer over Lithium Ion. This is why I started this thread in the first place as it surprised me.

Obviously you have good knowledge of the subject (more than me when it comes to vaping) have you seen any LiPo powered vaping batteries?