MEP and MP Letters

[McAldo]

STOP THE PRESSES!
My local MP hadn't replied, and to be honest I was starting to get a bit narky. Then I got a letter. Not an e-mail, but a physical letter! Regardless of political leanings, I think that the following is quite positive, and I will follow it up with the latest statements and ASH bulletins for him to have a read of. His constituency office is just around the corner from me, so I might just pop in and say hello too. Here's what I got...

View attachment 3994

Oh, nice to know we have a reasonable MP in the area
Well done on getting him involved.

 

[AnnaLaw]

Found it!

Thanks for the details, I'll add them to my letters.
Trouble is I now have so many studies that I wonder if anybody will look at any. The first time I gave studies I only gave nine.

 

[AnnaLaw]

My take on the "PG and VG can be harmful when inhaled" point is quite simple - If we, as vapers, maintain that it is harmless, we are doing ourselves and injustice. Many things are harmful when inhaled in sufficient quantities - the same applies to PG and VG. We need to, in my opinion, acknowledge (as KMS has done, above) that PG can cause irritation of the upper airway, and a slight increase in airway resistance, predominantly in no smokers, BUT when inhaling vapour is compared directly with inhaling smoke (of any origin, not just tobacco) it is less harmful physiologically by a very long margin.

I think McAldo made a very good point in a similar thread a few days back that a lot of things are used in medicine out of necessity rather than choice - for example, some drugs cannot be dissolved in water for injection, so they are dissolved in PG and other solvents - at the other end of the scale there are drugs used in psychiatry which are suspended in sesame oil! A lot of drugs are not approved for the purpose of certain treatments - but they are still used - not because they are safe, but because they achieve the desired result for a particular illness or condition. A huge number of chemotherapy drugs are, in fact, carcinogenic.

The upshot is - we need to acknowledge that there are mild side effects, that animal research has shown that it is very unlikely for there to be any significant long-term adverse effects, and to reinforce our point with a like-for-like comparison. In my opinion, the vaping advocate that proclaims vaping as harmless is as uniformed as the non-vaper who proclaims it as bad as cigarette smoking. Common sense says that vaping is less harmful, and that is the point - it is LESS harmful. We need to supply information to support our perspective whilst at the same time acknowledging that nothing we breathe in is completely harm free, but there are somethings which are a lot better to breathe in, out of personal choice.

I don't think anybody can claim that vaping is 100% harmless, it's, according to Carl Phillipds, omly between 98% amd 99.9% less harmful than smoking, although Carl Phillips is extrapolating from smokeless tobacco studies on such as snus and thinks it is probably less harmfull than smokeless tobacco as it does not come from an agricultural product. He used a comparison with lettuces, because they are grown every lettuce is different to every other. Also on the pharma argument he said it was impossible and unneccessary to work out a safe dose because people know when they've reached their ideal level, it's not ;like a chemotherapy drug where an exact dose is needed.

Of course we don't know the extent of harm, just that it is very low. So we shouldn't make 'completely harmless' claims. But we can compare the harm of smoking tobacco, or smoking anything, and the reduction in harm in vaping.

Of course there's no answer to the 'long-term effects' apart from data gathered fpr the component parts and there is plenty of that. especially as NRT uses nic base, PG and flavouring (plus a load of other chemicals). These can be bought over the counter and do not have all the warnings juice has. After all, people should know the dangers of too much nicotine as well as they know the dangers of household cleaners.

 

[EthelKing]

Final reply to share from Jean Lambert, MEP:

"Dear Lee,

Thank you for your email.

Greens favour effective regulation of the tobacco industry on public health grounds. However, you raise some important points about personal vapourisers / electronic cigarettes, which I have now raised with my colleagues on the relevant parliamentary committees working on this legislation. Please bear in mind that this is still at an early stage of the legislative process and the Commission's proposal to revise the Tobacco Directive also relates to a number of other issues.

...

Thank you for your email. Please let me know if you would like me to send you regular email updates about my work as London's Green MEP.

Yours sincerely,

Jean Lambert MEP
Green Party Member for the European Parliament for London"


So it looks as though my new mate Jean will be raising the issues, shame she believes that vaping is part of the tobacco industry, so I don't hold out much hope. Maybe I should have played this one from the lack of noxious gasses released into the atmosphere?

For reference, Lee favours his greens boiled with a little knob of butter to serve. He also finds farting cows quite amusing...

 

[AnnaLaw]

Final reply to share from Jean Lambert, MEP:

"Dear Lee,

Thank you for your email.

Greens favour effective regulation of the tobacco industry on public health grounds. However, you raise some important points about personal vapourisers / electronic cigarettes, which I have now raised with my colleagues on the relevant parliamentary committees working on this legislation. Please bear in mind that this is still at an early stage of the legislative process and the Commission's proposal to revise the Tobacco Directive also relates to a number of other issues.

...

Thank you for your email. Please let me know if you would like me to send you regular email updates about my work as London's Green MEP.

Yours sincerely,

Jean Lambert MEP
Green Party Member for the European Parliament for London"


So it looks as though my new mate Jean will be raising the issues, shame she believes that vaping is part of the tobacco industry, so I don't hold out much hope. Maybe I should have played this one from the lack of noxious gasses released into the atmosphere?

For reference, Lee favours his greens boiled with a little knob of butter to serve. He also finds farting cows quite amusing...

Did you post that somewhere else or was it the same reply to someone else?
I read the same letter a few hours ago and it was posted by somebody who thought they weren't sent a boilerplate letter.

I had a letter from the office of my Green just around Christmas saying he'd take a long time to answer because he reads every letter. As that was sent at the end of December I should get a reply soon that doesn't say the same.

I think I should write another Green-specific letter about how much the lack of smoke reduces pollution, even on the beach.

On the subject of greens, I missed out on mine because I've just eaten a chicken curry and forgot to add a handful of salad leaves, so no greens for me tonight. Very nice, followed by a slice of Key Lime Pie. No green in it apart from the name, white and yellow.

 

[EthelKing]

Did you post that somewhere else or was it the same reply to someone else?
I read the same letter a few hours ago and it was posted by somebody who thought they weren't sent a boilerplate letter.

I had a letter from the office of my Green just around Christmas saying he'd take a long time to answer because he reads every letter. As that was sent at the end of December I should get a reply soon that doesn't say the same.

I think I should write another Green-specific letter about how much the lack of smoke reduces pollution, even on the beach.

On the subject of greens, I missed out on mine because I've just eaten a chicken curry and forgot to add a handful of salad leaves, so no greens for me tonight. Very nice, followed by a slice of Key Lime Pie. No green in it apart from the name, white and yellow.

No - I haven't posted this anywhere other than here Anna. Looks as though the Greens could be sharing their letters as well as all the other parties!

Ooooh - Chicken Curry! Followed by Key Lime Pie! You tease! I'll settle down to my salad sarnies as part of my New Year "lose a tonne" regime!

 

[AnnaLaw]

No - I haven't posted this anywhere other than here Anna. Looks as though the Greens could be sharing their letters as well as all the other parties!

Ooooh - Chicken Curry! Followed by Key Lime Pie! You tease! I'll settle down to my salad sarnies as part of my New Year "lose a tonne" regime!

I read an identical letter on UKV I think.
I do a little Forum hopping, though I spend all day on forums unless I keep it to a max of 2, need to have another look at AEEC and ECF. So the Greens have finally decided on a united response so I expect I'll finally get the same reply as yours. Guess what I'm going to write back? Maybe start (mainly for Greens) it would save a lot of energy if you just posted one letter to each of the ecig forums. Then they'd all know that we know they're sending the same letter.
I wonder what would happen if I included all the boilerplate letters in my next round of letters.

No jest about my meal, it was small and low fat, a 'diet' curry, but I must swap from key lime pie to low fat yoghourt or a bit of fruit.
I lost a fair amount of lard, got stuck there, and kinda gave up. Not adding any as my usual diet for the rest of the day is one plate of shredded wheat with skimmed milk and one muller rice pot or a plate of porridge. Apart from nibbling fruit, mainly a banana or two, and drinking lots of fruit juice, that's it.
Once upon a time I could eat anything and never gain, but I did run at least 4 miles a day then... half uphill. Now I look at a cream cake and it jumps onto me.

 

[AnnaLaw]

Government position on ecigs - letter

I received this letter, a copy of one sent to my MP, this morning, attached as PDF. You need to scroll down a bit to start reading.

In it he states that until recently there were few products contining nicotine (cigarettes?) and some foods are classed as medicines, giving alcohol as one that isn't.
All in all, not good if this is the way the MHRA is going.

The question is, how much nicotine produces a physiological effect? One could argue all, as nicotine is in food and vitimin B3 is made from nicotine in food. Does the nicotine in cigarettes have a physiological effect and if it does, should they be regulated?

There are a million arguments against this stance. The only good bit in the letter refers to the nicotine quantity allowed for recreational use.

 

[EthelKing]

Well, I reached my own personal tipping point and wrote to Mr Hunt and have asked him outright why the government seems intent on interfering with a recreational nicotine use method, whether their involvement is influenced by loss of revenue and how does the government justify keeping tobacco products freely available in favour of a safer method of nicotine which could potentially save lives. I asked that he specifically address the issues raised in the context of the recreational use of nicotine and without comparing vaping to NRT and medicines, which it is not, does not claim to be and is not marketed or bought as.

I expect the usual load of bullshit - but I'll keep you posted!

 

[AnnaLaw]

I have definately tipped!

I finaly received the Labour template letter.
It will make no difference as they're all in the pay of pharma and tobacco even if they don't know it.

Two letters in one day, I'm flaning mad!

RE: Tobacco Products Directive, and Electronic Cigarettes

Thank you for writing to me about the important issue of the EU Tobacco Products Directive, and how it will affect electronic cigarettes.

Because e-cigarettes are a relatively new product they are regulated differently in each EU country. Some countries allow e-cigarettes to be sold without any regulation at all. Others have banned their sale completely. As the UK is part of the EU's internal market it is important that we harmonise the way we deal with this product, otherwise consumers could be buying unregulated products which do not conform to basic safety standards, either within their own country, or by easily purchasing it over the internet from a neighbouring country.

The European Commission has proposed that all 'nicotine containing products' with more than 2mg per unit should not be classed as tobacco products. Instead, under the Commission's proposals, nearly all e-cigarettes will need to get authorisation as a pharmaceutical product, in the same way as nicotine patches, sprays and gums.
My colleagues in the European Parliament have taken a cautious approach to e-cigarettes. If they are effective in helping people to stop smoking, then it is appropriate that they are regulated in the same way as other smoking cessation tools, such as nicotine patches.

The Commission proposal is not final and there will be many months of negotiations by the European Parliament, as well as health ministers from the UK and other EU countries, before the legislation is agreed. During this time Labour MEPs will be looking carefully at all of the measures and trying to find the best way to ensure that we effectively reduce smoking rates in the UK and across Europe.

Thanks again for writing to me on this important issue.

Yours sincerely,

Peter Skinner

Just regulate in all countries as they are regulated in the UK. After all, the only constituent ingredient that doesn't already have medical apprival if it was used as a medicine, are some of the flavourings.
Simple, apply UK law that is very strict, throughout the EU.
But then the government wouldn't get all that money from sin taxes and pharma companies would make less billions as well.