smoking stalled

[zouzounaki]

That's the kinda impression I get (if true)...

of course they are going to deny it. they’ve put massive efforts in to covering it up and making it untraceable. as an organisation, they are super dodgy.

here is the article from the daily
beast that was referenced.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/world...ritish-american-tobacco-is-secretly-behind-it

you’ll find an english version of le monde’s article on google too if you are interested.

 

[zouzounaki]

@Toby iVapour here is a piece about this ccc mob. there is no reason to believe they are not chancers

https://corporateeurope.org/en/powe...llionaires-funding-anti-regulation-hardliners

 

[vapesmarter]

most threads in the news section end up with a slanging match of a hundred different views coming from different points then they go onto vaping is dead and buy a fridge....

however, out of all the threads in this section, this thread I started from a crappy bbc news article has expanded into a deep dive into the vaping and smoking world

Both Zou and Toby have in the past "clashed", one being a company, the other a high-ranking respected consumer but both have opened up the levels, the low down dirty world of vaping, and advocacy that you hear so much about "save vaping save the mods.... freedom" etc is what people see every day but behind that are groups of people counting dollars.

I bow and tip my hat to both of you and thank you for the articles you posted knowledge is power the truth is a dirty word but we need the truth even when it leaves a nasty pile on the carpet

 

[Toby iVapour]

@Toby iVapour here is a piece about this ccc mob. there is no reason to believe they are not chancers
https://corporateeurope.org/en/powe...llionaires-funding-anti-regulation-hardliners

Interesting comments below it, e.g. -

That's amazing how biased this article is. The CCC, that I support, is basically working to let people live freely without government intervention in their life.

... knowledge is power the truth is a dirty word but we need the truth even when it leaves a nasty pile on the carpet

Or to paraphrase - there is no black and white.. only shades of grey...

 

[zouzounaki]

Interesting comments below it, e.g.

yes, since they are a certain variety of private lobbying company they will no doubt have trolls and eye-swivelers who go and post contrarian comments anywhere they are criticised.

i think the takeaway would need to be that they purport to be a grassroots consumer organisation, but i am a consumer and they don’t represent my interests. i think it’s probably fair to say this applies to the majority of consumers, who no doubt do not know them, have probably never heard of them nor been consulted by them as to what their views, preferences and interests might actually entail.

i think we can safely bet that they absolutely do represent the interests of their corporate sponsors, however, who line their pockets with millions of pounds for the privilege.

 

[Toby iVapour]

i think the takeaway would need to be that they purport to be a grassroots consumer organisation, but i am a consumer and they don’t represent my interests.

So how do you feel about advocacy that supposedly astroturf organisations carry out that you do presumably agree with?
e.g. just last week -

Michael Landl, Director of the World Vapers’ Alliance, expressed his strong disapproval -
https://worldvapersalliance.com/con...-whos-proposed-ban-on-flavoured-e-cigarettes/

“The WHO’s latest stance on vaping flavours is not just misguided, it’s dangerously out of touch with scientific reality. By pushing for a blanket ban, the WHO blatantly disregards a wealth of scientific evidence that underscores the benefits of vaping when compared to alternatives. Flavoured e-cigarettes have been proven to increase the chances of successful smoking cessation by 230% compared to non-flavored alternatives. It’s appalling to see such a pivotal public health tool being dismissed by an organisation that should be at the forefront of harm reduction.”

 

[zouzounaki]

So how do you feel about advocacy that supposedly astroturf organisations carry out that you do presumably agree with?
e.g. just last week -

i don’t buy into the “my enemy’s enemy” thing.imo these people are nefarious. their meddling is now being reported in the times and prob soon tabloids to scandalise vaping by association with BT. how convenient.

 

[zouzounaki]

also @Toby iVapour there is no “supposedly” about it. this is big business, their pockets are being lined with millions from big/ tobacco, oil, pharma etc. there is truly nothing grassroots about them.

 

[Toby iVapour]

also @Toby iVapour there is no “supposedly” about it. this is big business, their pockets are being lined with millions from big/ tobacco, oil, pharma etc. there is truly nothing grassroots about them.

OK, I was thinking about explaining about why I put "supposedly"...

Example - AFAIK, the New Nicotine Alliance (mentioned in one of the Times articles) is from grassroots, but apparently there is some tenuous connection (can't remember what they put) to BT...
.. so that's why I put supposedly.. I don't know who to believe (in some examples)...

 

[zouzounaki]

OK, I was thinking about explaining about why I put "supposedly"...

Example - AFAIK, the New Nicotine Alliance (mentioned in one of the Times articles) is from grassroots, but apparently there is some tenuous connection (can't remember what they put) to BT...
.. so that's why I put supposedly.. I don't know who to believe (in some examples)...

yes. part of the plan is to muddy the waters. legit groups, through some tenuous or even non existent connection, start getting tarred with the BT propaganda brush. these kind of professional lobbyists are pernicious. and interestingly this happens in the times, a right wing paper which has historically promoted the ideas of right wing nutjob think tanks like the IEA and adam smith institute who are also involved in this stuff.