Time for smokers and vapers to unite?

[vaporsizer]

It's that kind of commercial in yer face stuff which is causing ripples. Glossing it up & proking Joe public. Our Uk based vendors where i buy my liquids & gear bare zero resemblance to that world. Those guys are the real responsible reps of vaping.

 

[Mawsley]

I may be wrong (perhaps I need to read it again) but I think he is referring to uniting with smokers (albeit in some unspecified way) not the tobacco companies (if that was your point) Whilst I believe that ecigs in general should be as available as cigs and actively promoted I personally cringe at some of the ads being screened for the lookalikeys.

No, I wasn't being clear - I was referring to uniting with smokers

 

[vaporsizer]

No, I wasn't being clear - I was referring to uniting with smokers

O.K, elaborate. I can see something in your comment.

 

[Motorheaded]

I use the term stinkies(rarely) to refer to cigs, not smokers. I was a smoker as recently as October.
Maybe I live a sheltered existence, but I haven't seen any great superiority complex displayed by vapers. Please feel free to educate me on that.
The term stinkies is used by myself and I presume others, to re-affirm a negative side of cigarettes and why we don't want to go back. I've even seen smoker/vapers use the term. I've never made the connection to smokers per se.

We as vapers/ ex-smokers are fully aware of the hatchet-job that has been done to a sector of society persuing a legal pasttime.
At the same time, we fight for our right to vape as a safer alternative to smoking. If we were to merge our causes, we lose the single biggest factor in our favour. That it is safer than smoking.

As people we can defend the rights of people, but as a community of vapers, I'd find it hard to ignore WHY we are vapers instead.

I smoked 30 a day for 25+ years. I vape with smokers. Friends and family are smokers. I can't reconcile myself with the assertion that vapers are marginalising smokers.
I know ex-smokers can be vociferous, but vapers still largely chase nicotine, and therefore are still familiar with the cravings, the ritual, the enjoyment.

I won't fight for you to have babies, but I will fight for your right to have babies! - Sorry I thought I was going a bit 'Life of Brian'

I hope you see the distinction I'm clumsily trying to explain.

 

[Mark]

I use the term stinkies(rarely) to refer to cigs, not smokers. I was a smoker as recently as October.
Maybe I live a sheltered existence, but I haven't seen any great superiority complex displayed by vapers. Please feel free to educate me on that.
The term stinkies is used by myself and I presume others, to re-affirm a negative side of cigarettes and why we don't want to go back. I've even seen smoker/vapers use the term. I've never made the connection to smokers per se.

We as vapers/ ex-smokers are fully aware of the hatchet-job that has been done to a sector of society persuing a legal pasttime.
At the same time, we fight for our right to vape as a safer alternative to smoking. If we were to merge our causes, we lose the single biggest factor in our favour. That it is safer than smoking.

As people we can defend the rights of people, but as a community of vapers, I'd find it hard to ignore WHY we are vapers instead.

I smoked 30 a day for 25+ years. I vape with smokers. Friends and family are smokers. I can't reconcile myself with the assertion that vapers are marginalising smokers.
I know ex-smokers can be vociferous, but vapers still largely chase nicotine, and therefore are still familiar with the cravings, the ritual, the enjoyment.

I won't fight for you to have babies, but I will fight for your right to have babies! - Sorry I thought I was going a bit 'Life of Brian'

I hope you see the distinction I'm clumsily trying to explain.

Not clumsy lots of valid points. A lot of it is about perceptions. I do know (because I've had convos in the pub) that SOME smokers feel threatened by the whole Vaping thing. If you don't know anything about ecigs and suddenly people are using these 'plastic fags' and you're not clued up on their history, the grass root movement that has helped achieve their success, word of mouth, forums etc etc you may well be suspicious and think it's just another poor substitute for the 'real thing' and another attempt by the overlords to marginalise what you do, to push an alternative to something you have done and yes enjoyed for years. Let's face it. Smokers are stubborn bastards. I was. I knew it was unhealthy. Even MY parents (though they deny it) were aware of the dangers. When I grew up in the 60s and 70s everybody smoked but even then we pretty much knew it wasn't doing us any good. But fuck you. I'm informed and still smoke. I can well imagine being in a certain mindset that meant I eyed with suspicion folks touting some 'healthy' alternative. Fuck off and pass the Rizlas!

 

[Motorheaded]

Not clumsy lots of valid points. A lot of it is about perceptions. I do know (because I've had convos in the pub) that SOME smokers feel threatened by the whole Vaping thing. If you don't know anything about ecigs and suddenly people are using these 'plastic fags' and you're not clued up on their history, the grass root movement that has helped achieve their success, word of mouth, forums etc etc you may well be suspicious and think it's just another poor substitute for the 'real thing' and another attempt by the overlords to marginalise what you do, to push an alternative to something you have done and yes enjoyed for years. Let's face it. Smokers are stubborn bastards. I was. I knew it was unhealthy. Even MY parents (though they deny it) were aware of the dangers. When I grew up in the 60s and 70s everybody smoked but even then we pretty much knew it wasn't doing us any good. But fuck you. I'm informed and still smoke. I can well imagine being in a certain mindset that meant I eyed with suspicion folks touting some 'healthy' alternative. Fuck off and pass the Rizlas!

I live in Manchester and I've had the light-sabre cracks. I've had smokers tell me that I don't know the dangers of what I'm breathing in!
I've had my gear passed around the pub like a mobile phone in Victorian Britain.

Also, I went out in Glossop near my mate's, and saw a pub half-full of old men vaping ce4s on egos. They were still fascinated by my Chi you/ Kayfun combo, but I asked them about theirs and they said they only use them so they don't have to go out of the pub. They still smoke at home. They weren't informed, they got them "from a shop in town"

We have a responsibility to inform, even when asked stupid questions. We do this whilst understanding exactly what it means to be a smoker.
I have even been the ill-informed, flippant smoker, making wise-cracks to a VV/VW toting vaper.
What you find is, the information that is out there for the non-vaping fraternity, is scarce at best, downright dangerous at worst.

The state of disinformation touted by mainstream media (some people's only exposure), is one of the greatest crimes to public health today.

 

[wuz_uk]

i had been trying to stop smoking for years tried all other methods so it was only right i should try vaping .............. the rest as they say............................

my point is if you dont want to stop smoking then carry on and except all that comes with it! dont try and drag us vapers backwards, or try to make us the same WE ARE NOT SMOKERS we choose not to be, BUT the more the powers that BE can make us look like smokers the more they can shaft us, so for me i will not be joining with smokers any time soon but will always be happy to welcome them as VAPERS.

 

[Ninjaassasin1983]

I dont have an issue with smokers at all a person has the right to intake nicotine however they see fit as far as i'm concerned be it vape smoke chewing snuff snus or anything inbetween

 

[LilyRed]

I'll paraphrase something I said onsite the other day; simply, what's the point of deriding smokers? A smoker today could be the vaper of tomorrow.

Making someone feel bad about a habit is not going to make them want to stop (humans are peculiar creatures!), but more likely to revolt and (in this case) smoke all the more. We have the education and information at our fingertips to encourage and enlighten potential and new vapers, but we can't force our preferences upon upon anyone (as much as we'd like to).

Yes, tobacco stinks, it leaves crumbs of baccy and ash everywhere as well as increasing and adding to dust, and the house and clothing smells awful, plus the second and third -hand smoke is pretty unpleasant stuff ... the OH has taken up smoking again as well as vaping after 8 weeks rollie free because it's one of his ways of dealing with stress (serious family problems, etc.), but me moaning about it will make him ignore the ego and protank mini I gave him to use last week in favour of full-time smoking ...

That was only the small picture ... Bigger than that, the tobacco companies have known for the last few years, based on financial projections by city analysts, that vaping by adults and the use of shisha sticks by the youth market is going to eat more and more into their current revenues very rapidly over a short period of time and so have changed their business models to include e-cigarettes to capture the NRT & ex-smoking markets. They are meddling in a most destructive way with EU legislation so they can have things just as they'd like them and their products will achieve maximum exposure and push the products that we vapers and those that smokers now use out of not just the general marketplace, but any marketplace. Demonisation in the media by insidious means of anyone who vapes by not using a cig-alike sold by these companies is becoming more and more common. So yes, we are pretty much in the same boat with smokers whether we like it or not.

 

[Motorheaded]

LilyRed
I'm with you all the way, until the last sentence.
The single greatest argument we have when asking to be left alone to go about our business, is that we have chosen to leave behind the more dangerous option.
Our number one point is "It is not smoking!" It defines us.

We can lend support to smokers when their rights are under threat, but seriously, what good did we achieve while we WERE smokers, losing our rights?
The case against smoking for health reasons is well documented and accepted. Our existence as vapers is the acknowledgement of that.

We don't have to get very far into a debate for that to split our two groups.