Fully agreed, again.
But that’s not the way you came across initially, and that’s what I was politely trying to say to you. The way you came across initially was that you had more of an issue with him carrying a disease in/out of the hospital, infecting others and the ramifications of that. What H said in his initial post, (take into account I know him very well so can read his posts as if I’m hearing him say it), was that he’s sick of feeling as if he’s having his ability to draw his own conclusions curtailed (I did say that up there too a couple of posts ago).
He’s really not trying to challenge anyone that has a different view than his. He’s not like that, anyone that knows him properly (not just on a fucking forum), will tell you that. He’s a very easy going guy. He’s challenging the fact that he feels people are losing the ability to form their own opinions.
A few hours kip and ready to go.
My issue is absolutely 100% with the dick head filming that video acting like he did. There is no excuse or justification for behaviour like that putting other people at risk from a deadly virus because of (IMHO) a mentally deranged view that Covid doesn't exist. If the wife wants to deal with her issues, great. If the patient wants to refuse ventilator treatment then that is his fundamental right. If he wants to leave and die at home then he has that right too. Of course he does. But that's only a God given right (IMHO) IF he is making that decision with full mental capacity and is of sound mind and truly understands that he has an infectious and deadly disease that will most likely kill him within hours of leaving the hospital.
We don't have a wider context just from that clip but the guy filming strikes me as an opportunistic prick, grinning to the camera after being physically removed from the ward. The hospital also has a duty of care and part of that duty is to protect life and protect the vulnerable. If that patient has been convinced by nut jobs (guy filming included) that Covid doesn't actually exist and the hospital are trying to kill him with unnecessary meds and all he really needs is to go home and take some vit c and zinc and he'll be hunky dory then the hospital has a moral duty to protect that patient from effectively committing suicide on the basis of absolute, demonstrably false lies. So, I have no problem with that thundercunt being picked up by the scruff of his neck and ankles and forcibly ejected from the secure covid ward he has invaded with no mask and refused to leave whilst insulting every single staff member with his "covid doesn't exist" gibberish. I'm extremely sorry the wife felt the hospital didn't get back to her fast enough. Maybe they're struggling to cope with the number of patients and staff shortages? Maybe they were just busy and didn't feel picking up the phone was their number one priority of the day. What was shown in that clip is not how you resolve the issue.
So, you've highlighted that Hazza isn't trying to challenge anyone's views and his issue isn't the content of the video but the fact that YT removed it and he can't watch it. I understand that's his issue mate. I also have no problem at all with Hazza challenging the views of other members, mine included. My initial response to Hazza probably came across the way it did because of the comparison of YT removing that video clip as being consistent with what he would expect in Saudi Arabia. Maybe Hazza should go spend a year in Saudi Arabia and then when he comes back we can continue on from that thought. I hope you see how absolutely ridiculous that comparison is? To me, it's no different to people calling European leaders akin to Hitler for imposing lockdowns because of coronavirus. It takes any seriousness out of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.
Now, Hazza is absolutely entitled to feel anyway he likes. His opinions are his own and he's entitled to them. That's doesn't need saying. And he's entitled to express them in any way he wishes. But when I'm quoted and a comment like that is directed at me then I am equally entitled to express my own counter view. Which is exactly what I expressed in my response to him when I said I'm glad he got booted out and I'm also happy enough that YT removed the video. He wasn't filming police brutality. He wasn't holding people acting illegally to account. He wasn't serving the public good. He was being a cunt on private property where he has no business being and no business filming and what he filmed is dangerous, demonstrably false lies that cause real world harm, pain, suffering and death. If YT, a private company with rules and guidelines find that the video breaches their rules then they have every right to remove the video. Personally, I'm OK with YT leaving it up. I'm OK with people watching it. But I'm also OK with YT removing it and personally I'm glad they did. That fuckwit has no God given right to use YT's platform to be a cunt. People have a right to hold whatever opinions they have and they have a right to express them. There's a box in London where people can go spout any nonsense they like. Nobody has a right to express any nonsense they like on any platform they like and fuck the rules. That doesn't make us Saudi Arabia or Saudi Arabia-like. And it doesn't mean I support mindless censorship.
Now I’ll write this down and make of it what you will but covid and everything surrounding it is provoking some strong reactions, and for good reason. I sit in the middle on most issues, and that’s not a cop out. I’m educated enough to convey an opinion and big enough to back it up, so it’s not trying to please everyone it’s just a case of I can see both sides - but a week,maybe two ago, I watched Hazza get systematically destroyed on a thread on here by people who I thought were fairly liberal in their thinking, and who frankly should know better. At this point Hazza wasn’t posting his posts dripping with quite so much sarcasm, but these people went out of their way to make him look a cunt, and he is not one of POTV’s cunts. Not at all. You possibly, me definitely- him? No.
So then in the last few days he’s been getting a label of being obtrusive and abrasive and almost mothballed on posts that he comments where the narrative is different to his. You and I have mentioned that this place is like an online haven to some in the past I think? Do you think it feels like that to him at the minute?
I honestly don't know which thread you are referring to. There's been a whole load of threads about Brexit and now Covid. I participate in some and I read some where I don't participate but I skip others and I also skip large parts of the ones I do post in when I'm no longer directly involved in the conversation. I'd be happy to look at what you're referring to if you want to point me there (my inbox is always open mate) but I haven't personally read anything that I thought made Hazza look like a cunt. Now, just to be clear; I am ONLY saying that I haven't seen it, not that it's not there and exactly as you describe. But it's impossible for me to comment on it specifically without first looking at it.
But more generally; it's a defining event in our time. Of course everyone has an opinion and due to the nature of the events and their effects on friends, families and communities, opinions are polarised. Nobody should feel, or be made to feel, like they cannot express their views. But when views, and the actions based on those views, have such serious consequences for others then people should expect to have those views challenged - regardless of what side of the issue you sit on. Hazza should not be put off expressing his views and he should challenge views he disagrees with. If all views expressed are the same then all you've got is an echo chamber. We don't all have to agree. We can all agree to disagree. But personally, before I do that, I like to defend my opinions and I like others to do the same. It's healthy. I've had many discussions on here where I've mulled it over long after the discussion ended and my view point has changed slightly as a result. I would imagine I'm not alone.
Moderate me, do what you will I’m of no opinion. I like you from what I know of you. But see through your own opinion to that of others - because on one hand you’re saying differing opinions are good and on the other you’re slamming people for doing things you don’t like- and that doesn’t compute.
And that’s me done for posting on this one.
(If I’ve made spelling mistakes you can all get fucked because I’m making coffee again)
OK, so I have to assume here as you didn't want to clarify but I'll do my best and you can correct me if I'm way off.
This is MY view. Not saying it's the RIGHT view. Or the ONLY view. And it's open for ANYONE to disagree with privately or publicly. It's a discussion forum after all.
Everybody is most definitely entitled to hold any view they like. That doesn't mean every opinion is created equal and it doesn't mean I have to agree with them and that I can't slam them if I think they're wrong. And that obviously works both ways. If someone goes around saying bat shit stuff like covid doesn't exist or the royals are lizards then that opinion is not equal to the opinions of doctors around the world treating covid patients every day or the scientists who research it and post in peer reviewed journals. If an opinion is expressed that's full of lies, misinformation and it is dangerous and damaging then it should be called out for what it is. That doesn't mean that that opinion can't be held by people. People like the dick head in the video can believe covid is a hoax. That's his right. But his rights don't override the rights of others and he has no right to put other people's lives in danger when exercising his right to express himself. And nobody has an automatic right to use any platform to post anything they like. Trump is the perfect example. He has no God given right to use Twitter's platform to spread lies and disinformation which causes other people to commit dangerous acts that put other people's lives at risk.
To sum up; Hazza is perfectly entitled to feel he wants to watch the video and he is disgusted by censorship. Obviously. And he should express his views. As should all members. We're just not all going to agree on everything. There's nothing wrong with that.
I'll shut up now.
