What to do with valkarie?

[gary68]

Hammer of god it is then

 

[Mbsun]

A dual mech isn't going to cut it yes? So a saga is out, also I come across overkill mods while googling about, has dual mech on it.
Leaves hog

 

[Mbsun]

I understand, so much as i feel i need to ohms law, i am far from an expert clearly, but i can count, and establish limits, the rest bit by bit with research and conversation on here, the pennies drop.
But I need to ask a question here.

Battery sag, i kinda know what it is, from putting the valhalla on the clutch, but in technical and a bit more layman's terms what is it?

Is it as simple as the draw on one battery is too much? By upping the batteries but in series to increase volts to get a meatier coil to ramp quicker in effect i am creating a single bigger battery, the draw still kills it.
So this is why a dual series is no good to me?
So I need a 2 parallel 2 series to eliminate both problems? Am I correct (essentially) if not technically or terminology wise?

So why would a regulated mod sort this? Even if it was a dual 18650? (With the highest rated batteries if there is an argument against it fwiw)

 

[Crispycritters]

I understand, so much as i feel i need to ohms law, i am far from an expert clearly, but i can count, and establish limits, the rest bit by bit with research and conversation on here, the pennies drop.
But I need to ask a question here.

Battery sag, i kinda know what it is, from putting the valhalla on the clutch, but in technical and a bit more layman's terms what is it?

Is it as simple as the draw on one battery is too much? By upping the batteries but in series to increase volts to get a meatier coil to ramp quicker in effect i am creating a single bigger battery, the draw still kills it.
So this is why a dual series is no good to me?
So I need a 2 parallel 2 series to eliminate both problems? Am I correct (essentially) if not technically or terminology wise?

So why would a regulated mod sort this? Even if it was a dual 18650? (With the highest rated batteries if there is an argument against it fwiw)

The easiest way to 'see' battery sag is to connect a DNA mod into eScribe. If you start with a fully charged battery at 4.2V or 8.4V for a dual battery mod and take a hit the voltage displayed on the diagnostics will drop instantly. If you are pulling say 14W with a 1.0 Ohm coil this drop will be minimal but if you take a hit at 140W with a 0.10 Ohm coil the voltage drop will be high. After the hit the battery voltage will instantly restore to a higher level. If you are using high Amp batteries the amount of Voltage drop will be lower than the voltage drop of low Amp batteries because the internals of high Amp batteries are designed to cater for high drain use rather than maximising capacity.

Basically when you fully charge a battery it should be 4.2. But it will be 4.2 Volts AT REST - the moment you put it under load the internal voltage of the battery will drop/sag.

With regulated mods they will have Voltage boost circuitry - if the battery drops by half a volt under load the boost circuit will automatically increase the voltage sent to the 510 - mechs (and shit pod mod boards) don't have this and the Wattage of the vape you get will decrease as the battery voltage falls.

 

[Crispycritters]

If you don't have a DNA mod another way is to try two different batteries in a mech.

If you have something like a Samsung 30T and a Samsung 25R with a 21700 adapter.

Try taking a hit from each fully charged battery using a single coil build at 0.20 to 0.25. The total load should be fine for the 20 Amp 25R but you will definitely notice the 30T will give a stronger hit - because it is specifically designed to run at higher loads the voltage sag under load will be lower than the 25R and you will get a higher powered vape.

Edit - Battery sag/voltage drop through the connections of the mod/atty and any additional resistance caused by dirt/rust/bad connections always affect the actual power of the vape you get. I consider voltage drop to be caused by resistance of all the connections in the mod/atty where energy is lost along they way as it is wasted heating up areas of the mod instead of the coils (hot button syndrome!) and battery sag being caused by the internal losses inside the battery when it is under load.

 

[Mbsun]

Thank you crispycritters, I have read it once, I will be reading it a few times before considering asking questions

I only have 2 types of batteries at the moment, as I buy them in sets of 4 normally and run them to death over a year or so.
Golisi 18650 g30 and
Molicel 21700 p42a

If I but a hog (this weekend at its current price if I am), I will need another 4 which will be either molicel p42 or p45 or holm tech (I can get these at half the price still over 30a continuous discharge)

 

[Mbsun]

Right, am I correct in this?

A dual series mech vs a quad battery 2 dual series in parallel

The dual series (saga for eg) may or may not sag depending on batteries used and the load I put on them due to the coil, but its a possibility because I will be pushing them to get what I want. Because I am doubling up the power to get the coils going,but not so much the ability to support it?
A 2 series 2 parallel will not sag as I can both double up the power needed and double up the ability to support it.

 

[Crispycritters]

Right, am I correct in this?

A dual series mech vs a quad battery 2 dual series in parallel

The dual series (saga for eg) may or may not sag depending on batteries used and the load I put on them due to the coil, but its a possibility because I will be pushing them to get what I want. Because I am doubling up the power to get the coils going,but not so much the ability to support it?
A 2 series 2 parallel will not sag as I can both double up the power needed and double up the ability to support it.

Sort of right.

All batteries will sag when under load, the only difference will be HOW MUCH they sag - this is mainly dependent on the size of the amp load you are attempting to pull from them and the Amp rating of the battery.

If, for example you are using a single battery 4.2V Mech with a 0.12 Ohm build and a fully charged Samsung 30T - on paper you are pulling 35 Amps of current from the battery. If you put the same build on a dual battery parallel mech - you are also trying to pull 35 Amps, but from a pair of 30Ts. In theory you would get exactly the same Wattage vape from both mechs as they both provide 4.2 Volts and using ohms law you will get an identical vape. In practice the battery/batteries in both mods will sag under load, but because the pair of batteries in the parallel mech are sharing the load (theoretically you are only asking each cell to provide 17.5 Amps of current) so the amount of sag will be reduced by approximately 50% (in theory) - so higher voltage gets to the 510 and you get a more powerful vape from the parallel mech.

The same applies with a para-series mech like the HOG - having two banks of batteries effectively halves the current load on each stack of batteries so the battery sag will be reduced - so a para series will potentially send more power to the 510 than a regular series.

If you are considering buying a para series mech personally I wouldn't rush into trying to chase the limits of a 4 battery set up as regular 2 battery series mechs already can provide a lot of power and a para series already will provide more power than a regular 2 cell series mech with the same build because the battery sag is considerably reduced. You are unlikely to have any slow ramp up problems.

With a para-series mod, make absolutely sure you have the batteries in the correct orientation or the batteries will go into meltdown instantly - you don't have to press the fire button for this to happen, just putting the batteries inside the mod in the wrong orientation causes an instant hard short (the same will happen with a parallel mech)

 

[Crispycritters]

Sorry if this seems insulting.

When you double the voltage going from a 4.2 Volt Mech to a 8.4 Volt series or para-series mech you must QUADRUPLE the resistance of the coil to get the same powered Vape.

i.e

4.2V with a 0.12 Ohm build - 4.2 divided by 0.12 = 35 Amps
8.4V with a 0.24 Ohm build - 8.4 divided by 0.24 = 35 Amps

Both are within the limits of good 35 Amp batteries, however when you work out the wattage this happens -

35 Amps x 4.2V = 147W
35 Amps x 8.4V = 294W

I know this totally ignores the battery sag/voltage drop through the mod and you won't get the full voltage to the 510 from any mech, but please don't assume just doubling the voltage means just doubling the resistance if you are accustomed to 4.2 Volt mechs as a scorched throat isn't fun..

Like I said, sorry if this is insulting - but it may be of use to someone

 

[mattc1]

Sorry if this seems insulting.

When you double the voltage going from a 4.2 Volt Mech to a 8.4 Volt series or para-series mech you must QUADRUPLE the resistance of the coil to get the same powered Vape.

i.e

4.2V with a 0.12 Ohm build - 4.2 divided by 0.12 = 35 Amps
8.4V with a 0.24 Ohm build - 8.4 divided by 0.24 = 35 Amps

Both are within the limits of good 35 Amp batteries, however when you work out the wattage this happens -

35 Amps x 4.2V = 147W
35 Amps x 8.4V = 294W

I know this totally ignores the battery sag/voltage drop through the mod and you won't get the full voltage to the 510 from any mech, but please don't assume just doubling the voltage means just doubling the resistance if you are accustomed to 4.2 Volt mechs as a scorched throat isn't fun..

Like I said, sorry if this is insulting - but it may be of use to someone

Top post I have seen on this site for a very long time mate!. Just to help..