Why you should mix your own juice.

[oldhippydude]

I fully intend to ignore the regulations and simply buy my nicotine base from outside of the EU if the arse holes are successful in further regulating the regs on nicotine base.

Further to the statements earlier about leaving loopholes, regulators are frequently "blind" to the most obvious holes (tax laws) they leave.

Good on ya Chegs I admire the f**** you attitude when it comes to ridiculous laws.
I personally would need to know more about the consequences of getting caught before importing.
I would be more likely to buy from dodgy geezers in this country once my stockpile was depleted.
Prohibition in any case has never been very effective.

 

[scrumpox]

Hey man .. the point is .. I dont think they WANT UK juice manufacturers outside of the massive companies and big pharma / big tobacco ..

having seen some of the rather scary shit they are expecting us to do in draft form .. I feel confident in saying they are aiming squarely at cutting us off at the knees

not trying to get in an argument and its s'not me being pessimistic .. Im actually rather optimistic it will get either a: overturned or b: considerably re negotiated. but as the draft stands at the minute .. well lets just say draconian is not the word

Actually, I share your optimism or at least have the belief that the challenge will force major redrafts. There's a glaring area for differing interpretation, call it a loop hole if you want, regarding liquid placed on the market for consumers and the ingredients that form that liquid. Look at 3a, b, c and d and it's a stretch to think that applies to nicotine concentrate ... which is the pessimistic view offered on this thread, this forum and other forums.

Regulation is going to affect juice manufacturers but that should be welcomed by consumers. Wish you all the best with that, man. On the plus side the opportunity for those getting through the regs will be epic!!

On the funnier side, it's going to be hilarious when e-cigarette devices have to pass stringent tests against leaking!

I expect juice manufacturer to require either a poisons license or some other form of permit.
The only reason I expect this is otherwise it will be a glaring loophole in their regulations.
You think they will leave this loophole open,I think otherwise. Either they will notice the loophole (if it is one,I am not sure I buy your distinction about ingredients and products) when they come to draft the details of the regulations or they will notice shortly afterwards.
At the end of the day we just believe different things and are acting according to those beliefs.We both have to live with the decisions we make and I assume You are happy for me to built up a wee stock just as I am happy for you to choose not to.
Each to their own.

Not only do I believe there's a glaring loophole, I feel as you do, that it would have to be sustantially rewritten to separate finished fluids on the market for vaping and the constituent ingredients that form it. It's hopelessly inadequate as it stands such that nicotine vendors would have no problem driving an articulated tanker through it, let alone a 0.25 litre bottle of 72mg/ml.

I would be surprised if HM Govt miss the chance to whack tax on nicotine concentrate, but paying tax on it hardly amounts to an imminent ban. Paying 100% tax on it wouldn't force me to consider filling up a freezer with a lifetime's supply. Paying 20% tax on it would seem reasonable, though I would certainly take advantage of the tax free period before it came into force.

I still see nothing at all that even hints that there'll be a ban on 72mg/ml nicotine concentrate. If and when I see it I'll change my stance.

 

[Diche]

If anything I think oldhippydude is overly optimistic about the effects of article 20 of the TPD. That is why I have chosen to get so actively involved in the politics side of vaping. I think there are countries in the EU that will choose to implement the letter of the law whilst leaving large loopholes open that defeat the spirit of it, but the idea that the UK would be one of these frankly belongs in cloudcuckoo land. When has the UK ever paid lip service to this type of EU regulation?

The strictest interpretation of article 20 would leave us with cigalikes with prefilled cartridges as those are currently the only leak-free delivery system available. It would cap nicotine strength at 20mg. It would ban all indoor vaping in public places. It would put all of the small vape industry out of business and leave us with only a very small number of large scale producers and the tobacco companies in charge of production.

Those of us who already vape using rebuilables and diy liquid might be able to continue in the privacy of our own homes, but the uptake of vaping by current smokers would grind to a dramatic halt.

The battle over this is being fought right now, not just by TW and their court case, but in the media and the court of public opinion. If we lose that battle the powers that be will simply delay the TW court case until after May 2016 and even if it wins its victory will simply result in better phrased draconian rules than in and real relaxing of the by then established regulations.

It was tempting to stock up and take an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude. Unfortunately my response to this sort of diminishing of the rights of others is to stand on the line and make my voice heard.

 

[scrumpox]

I deplore this kind of aggressive activist attitude, dismissing all other stances as selfish I'm alright Jackism. However much I'm comforted by the existence of Vapers in Power and TW's challenge to the directive, it's just a vape Diche ... there are bigger issues in the world than nicotine withdrawal.

6 Nations is on the box now ...

 

[Fleabag]

I'm of the 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst' persuasion. I'm involved in the fight against restrictions of any kind. I believe that every policy and law restricting availability and freedom of use further reinforces the message to the public that there's something to fear and that ecigs are part of the tobacco problem, not the solution.
However, if our worst fears are realised and access to products and/or liquids is affected, I want to ensure that at least I'm OK and not at risk of going back on the fags, so I have a nicotine reserve (and will be building it up more) and lots of hardware to keep me ticking along

 

[Diche]

I deplore this kind of aggressive activist attitude, dismissing all other stances as selfish I'm alright Jackism. However much I'm comforted by the existence of Vapers in Power and TW's challenge to the directive, it's just a vape Diche ... there are bigger issues in the world than nicotine withdrawal.

6 Nations is on the box now ...

My comments were not intended to be insulting in any way so I apologise if they came across as such.

I actually believe the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude is a valid response in the face of this. After all given the skills I have and the current international nature of the vaping industry, any rules they will bring in will be pretty much unenforceable. Most of the worlds nicotine is produced in India, most of our vaping equipment is made in China. It may take a while to establish reliable contacts but it will happen. Forums would also continue to exist though in a worst case scenario they would have to be based on servers outside the EU.
The only true losers would be current smokers.

I also agree with you when you say there are bigger issues. Vaping is just one tiny part of a much bigger picture of the erosion of civil liberties and a growing trend of governments lying and withholding information from their populations. The TTIP would be another example of the same phenomenon of decisions being made that benefit large corporations rather than the general population, and this is just one example of things wrong with the world.

However I can't get involved in too many battles or I don't do any of them justice so vaping is the one I have decided to give some welly to. Its easier to be passionate about something that directly effects you.

 

[Chegs]

Good on ya Chegs I admire the f**** you attitude when it comes to ridiculous laws.
I personally would need to know more about the consequences of getting caught before importing.
I would be more likely to buy from dodgy geezers in this country once my stockpile was depleted.
Prohibition in any case has never been very effective.

I've had the "pleasure" of an enforced holiday in years past,I've also been clobbered with a £5000 fine for being a taxi driver that lived nextdoor to a chunt with a long-standing hatred of me & anything I did,so she reported me to the council for parking my taxi outside my house which was in breach of their bolloxed planning regulations(the council said I was running my taxi from the house,whereas I said taxis worked from the rank)so I'm not scared of convictions for illegally importing nicotine base.

As a result of my past,my MP isn't interested in communicating with me re: vaping.I frequently request he sees me,and jump on twitter whenever he's about to try & provoke some kind of discussion(always ignored )
I join in with various online protests re: vaping.
I add my signature to petitions


I also try to promote vaping among friends.


If the impending regulations concerning vaping result in my breaking the law,f*** em! I used to say I'd resume smoking,I am bloody sure that won't happen but I will continue mixing my liquids for myself/friends & pretty much anyone else that asks me to.As far as I can recall,importing nicotine from outside the EU if discovered by HMC simply resulted in my being out of pocket to the tune of the cost of the nicotine,and not my having the doors taken off their hinges by the UK version of a SWAT team.I've never had any problem importing nicotine base previously,I was just informed that the result was my losing that order.This might change once the TPD becomes "live" but I will still try to import my nic base,as I've read comments online stating that to avoid large import duty fees the supplier stated that the package was "plumbing parts" & I'm convinced that the same could happen with nic base(incorrectly labelled as lemon juice etc)There are plenty of UK residents importing medicines from around the world,therefore I expect the same will be true for nic base.

 

[remnant]

It's pretty much impossible to predict, at this stage, how any of this will play out in reality - but my feeling is that the TPD isn't designed to catch those of us who can see what's coming, and have taken steps to prepare for it. All but the most obtuse of the ANTZ must realise, deep in their spiteful souls, that they're not actually going to be able to corral us back into the nicotine duopoly of Big T and Big P.

The people that the TPD will really harm - and those I believe it is *intended* to harm - are those who are still caught up in that duopoly, either smoking, or yoyo'ing back and forth between smoking and futile ineffective NRTs, whilst being berated and objectified every step of the way.

 

[blademansw]

There was a post in one of the Facebook groups about a bit of activism, but unfortunately the vast majority of vapers seem more interested in drooling over shiny tubes and posting handcheck pictures than the spending of 5 fucking minutes writing to MP's or posting on online news stories etc.

Sad, lazy, and disappointing. We have enough numbers to represent the balance of power in elections and to stay public opinion.

Makes my fucking blood boil so I won't say any more.

 

[Diche]

This is one of the blogs I have been reading recently and this entry covers a lot of how I feel on the subject

It’s Time For The Gloves To Come Off | Fergus OnlineFergus Online