Addiction...

[Simon G]

You might be right in saying that NRT is under-researched, but it certainly doesn't follow that research into smoking gives more reliable answers regarding nicotine addictiion. They don't address nicotine aaddiction at all, All they can tell us is that one or more of the numerous chemicals in tobacco smoke is highly addictive. That the main culprit is nicotine now appears increasingly unlikely.

So answer me this .... how was I able to switch from a 30 year smoking addiction to vaping overnight without almost any withdrawal symptoms? (symptoms that I am very familiar with after my many attempts to quit)

...also I am a person that doesn't vape because it's my 'hobby' or I think it's cool and fun... so I should be able to go zero nic tomorrow right? ... probably stop by the end of the month?

 

[zouzounaki]

So answer me this .... how was I able to switch from a 30 year smoking addiction to vaping overnight without almost any withdrawal symptoms? (symptoms that I am very familiar with after my many attempts to quit)

This is a valid point, but at the same time we could say, how are so few people able to quit using traditional nrt? In theory - if the main factor in smoking addiction is nicotine - as I understand it, it should actually work better than vaping, given the rates of absorption of the various methods of administration.

 

[zouzounaki]

Also I think it's worth keeping in mind that I don't think anybody is claiming nicotine isn't psychoactive.

 

[Simon G]

This is a valid point, but at the same time we could say, how are so few people able to quit using traditional nrt? In theory - if the main factor in smoking addiction is nicotine - as I understand it, it should actually work better than vaping, given the rates of absorption of the various methods of administration.

I gave up for 6 months using nic gum back in the day, it worked for me but there was problems with it .. one, it tasted revolting and two, I didn't attempt to cut down or stop it. so I was munching through half a packet a day of the full strength gum. I went back to smoking because I was sick of chewing expensive shitty tasting gum all day..

 

[zouzounaki]

I gave up for 6 months using nic gum back in the day, it worked for me but there was problems with it .. one, it tasted revolting and two, I didn't attempt to cut down or stop it. so I was munching through half a packet a day of the full strength gum. I went back to smoking because I was sick of chewing expensive shitty tasting gum all day..

Aye that's a good point. It's rank. The simple fact that vaping is enjoyable means it's likely to be more successful than the gum, mouthspray, those inhalator things and suchlike. But patches, and any of the other ones that don't taste disgusting, seem to have a really low success rate as well.

I've read on other forums about whole tobacco alkaloids and how some people say they've really struggled with conventional eliquid and only whole tobacco alkaloids have made it easy to switch. Mostly in America I think. But it's worth taking that into account. Nicotine isn't the only psychoactive alkaloid that occurs naturally in tobacco.

I don't necessarily disagree with you btw, I'm kinda on the fence a bit. But think I tend towards the nicotine not being as addictive as previously thought side, just based on my own experience.


edit for typos

 

[Simon G]

Aye that's a good point. It's rank. The simple fact that vaping is enjoyable means it's likely to be more successful than the gum, mouthspray, those inhalator things and suchlike. But patches, and any of the other ones that don't taste disgusting, seem to have a really low success rate as well.

I've read on other forums about whole tobacco alkaloids and how some people say they've really struggled with conventional eliquid and only whole tobacco alkaloids have made it easy to switch. Mostly in America I think. But it's worth taking that into account. Nicotine isn't the only psychoactive alkaloid that occurs naturally in tobacco.

I don't necessarily disagree with you btw, I'm kinda on the fence a bit. But think I tend towards the nicotine not being as addictive as previously thought side, just based on my own experience.


edit for typos

We can only really talk about our own experiences, which will be different for everyone.... You are right that vaping is enjoyable and that's a big part of it... and for me it's far more enjoyable than smoking, that's the main reason I wouldn't go back to smoking and part of the reason it was so easy to switch ... for me it's like smoking but better in every way.

Maybe I will try and stop vaping for a day or two and see what happens as a personal experiment .... last time I tried to quit smoking cold turkey (which was about 6 months before I started vaping) after less than 24 hours I was curled up on my lounge floor in a fetal position, crying like a baby (literally) and begging my other half to go to the shop and buy some fags for me.

 

[Woma]

But think I tend towards the nicotine not being as addictive as previously thought side, just based on my own experience.

This is where it gets clouded and why addiction is so complicated, we won't have any ex smokers on here who just gave up and moved on, we're here because we vape and are still addicted to nicotine!

There will indeed be plenty of people who have just given up, in my experience clinically, the most succesful giver uppers are people who have a smoking related illness, I've seen people give up even when they were given a short prognosis i.e. Weeks to months to live.

 

[Mitz]

Woma highlighted an issue in this discussion that I think needs clarifying. And having thought about it since last night I think the general, and understandable, lack of knowledge with regard to the mechanisms of heroin addiction plays a large roll.

So these are my final thoughts on this subject matter for whatever it is worth to whoever. Read it; don't read it. Like it; hate it. Agree or disagree. Call it subjective, call it what you like. It is what it is.

Seeing as I made the initial comparison... this is for clarification purposes only.

When I compared heroin to nicotine I was NOT taking into account the socio-economic implications of either addiction. Also, I was NOT referring to the physical withdrawal process. That would be stupid as there is no comparison between the two. Lack of observable physical withdrawal symptoms does not make smoking / nicotine any less addictive than heroin. Crack cocaine causes no observable physical withdrawal symptoms either. Does anybody here want to argue that crack cocaine is not highly addictive? Of course not.

In my comnparison I am solely referring to the PSYCHOLOGICAL DRIVE TO RE-USE AND ABUSE.

To be clear....

The psychological drive to re-use with regard to cigarettes / nicotine is MUCH stronger than the urge to re-use heroin. Heroin addicts do not crave heroin. They do not have wild mood swings if they don't have a hit for a few hours. They do not get angry, aggressive, depressed, sad or upset when they don't use for any extended period of time. The psychological drive to re-use heroin is actually very WEAK. There is no compulsion to use heroin like there is with cigarettes. Heroin addicts are created, in large part, because using heroin is pleasurable. People use it because they enjoy it. Not because they feel an urgent psychological impulse to use it and re-use it. They use it because they want to feel that nice warm glow. It feels so nice that they start using it once a week on top of the weekends because it feels so nice. Then twice a week and eventually it's every day of the week. Then one day they wake up after running out of money and gear and they feel fucking awful. They have the sensation of alien crawling under the skin all over their face and body. They have stomach cramps and they start throwing up. Eventually their back starts to ache in an undescibable way and their legs start to throb and they feel like they've just run 10,000 miles non stop and the aching and throbing just won't stop. It all just intensifies and gets worse as the hours go by. Hey presto! They have a habit and the only thing that will make them feel better / normal is using again and postponing the withdrawals until the next time they run out of money and gear OR they can endure a week or two residing up the devils ass-hole! Because that is the only thing I can compare heroin withdrawal to; Living inside Satan's ass-hole. NASTY. And THAT is what compels heroin addicts to lose control of their addiction and continue using out of control. And that is when the socio-economic ramifications begin to play their part in making it an extremely diffiicult addicition to conquer. For example, it being almost impossible to get help because the whole thing is a secret and you cannot just disappear for a month or two to a rehab. What would the family say? The kids? What would my boss say? Who will look after the cat? Etc. Cigarettes / nicotine on the other hand create no such physical withdrawals. Instead they pshycologically drive you to smoke. You have intense cravings not back ache. You have mood swings not stomach cramps. You feel depressed instead of feeling physical pain. A heroin addict can go without heroin for as long as it takes until withdrawal sets in without giving it a second thought. Usually 10 to 12 hours comfortably. 14 to 16 at a real push. Then the physical discomfort will compel them to use again. There is no compulsion to use during that time. If they use during that time and before they start to get sick it is purely by CHOICE. Because they WANT to use again. Smoking is not a CHOICE. Because the pshychological drive is SO STRONG. Your brain compels you to smoke and it will manifest itself in many ways, ultimately leading to you climbing the walls until you get your "fix". With nicotine your brain makes you use again. With heroin your body forces you to use again. Sit a junkie down for 10 hours and don't take your eyes off him and you will see no difference in him. And you won't until he goes in to withdrawal. Sit a smoker down for 10 hours and watch him and see how he reacts!!!

So is smoking as addictive as heroin? PSYCHOLOGICALLY.....YES. ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY. PHYSICALLY.... NO.

But addiction is not measured by how bad the PHYSICAL withdrawal symptoms are but by how severe the compulsion is to use and abuse something is. And those compulsions are stronger PSYCHOLOGICALLY with smoking than they are with heroin. So, yes, smoking is as addictive as heroin. IMHO.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[jay2]

So answer me this .... how was I able to switch from a 30 year smoking addiction to vaping overnight without almost any withdrawal symptoms? (symptoms that I am very familiar with after my many attempts to quit)

...also I am a person that doesn't vape because it's my 'hobby' or I think it's cool and fun... so I should be able to go zero nic tomorrow right? ... probably stop by the end of the month?

I can only echo Zouzanaki's response. I have no idea.

But if we're going to leap to conclusions every time a new bit of anecdotal evidence emerges, we'll just be contradicting ourselve and arguing with ourselves for eternity.

Unexpected cases like yourself present some interesting questions, which might not be easy to answer. I mean, there might be some other factor in operation that nobody's ever thought of, yet. . That;s not an unusual occurence , after all. (I mean, people failing to explain things, having run up against the limits off their knowlege) . I wouldn't think that my failure to think up a good explanation means anything more than : I'm not omniscient, sadly . (I always wanted to be omniscient when i grew up, Bugger hairdresser or train driver . But I've never yet come remotely near to making the grade, dammit )

 

[Mitz]

This is a valid point, but at the same time we could say, how are so few people able to quit using traditional nrt? In theory - if the main factor in smoking addiction is nicotine - as I understand it, it should actually work better than vaping, given the rates of absorption of the various methods of administration.

Because smoking / vaping is a far stronger delivery method for nicotine. You can chain smoke / vape till you get your fill. Adjust the nic level in your juice or buy stronger fags!