Addiction...

[zouzounaki]

And, as a pharmacologist I agree with mitz.

Yes, it is, but it doesn't have the massive social effects as opiates as it's readily available and cheap.

Did you read my posts?

See, this is why i was saying it's not very good to make these kind of general comparisons. This thing is as/more addictive than that. Addiction is complicated and social and psychological factors are a huge part of it.

 

[zouzounaki]

I'm the same but I don't think that means it's less addictive ... I always presumed it was just because we are taking in less nicotine than we were, when I first switched I effectively halved my nicotine intake that day (according to those rough calculators) and now I vape half the e-liquid a day than I did when I started vaping ... so I've effectively been 'cutting down' ... and it seems I'm now having a quarter of the nicotine that I was when I smoked.

I'm not sure that makes me less addicted .... I don't know.. I just don't see it like that, it's ok going for a few hours but could I go a week, a month, stop altogether? ... it might be easier but then it would be if I've lowered my nicotine that much.

I have an alcoholic friend, he can go an afternoon without a drink but he's absolutely still an alcoholic, he couldn't go a day without a drink.

... I dunno when I use the phrase 'highly addictive' I mean that it's extremely difficult to stop, not that a few puffs on a vape will make you an addict.

Maybe I'm wrong using it like that?

No I think you're right to use it like that. But I also think that when we're talking about the same substance (nicotine), that not being so bothered about not being able to vape for a much longer period than going without a smoke suggests to me that nicotine seems to be less addictive in the form of vaping.

It could be you're right and that this is a factor of consuming less nicotine, though.

 

[WardyGTC]

They say nicotine without tobacco is much less addictive than previously thought. It looks like you're going to be The Planet's guinea pig for that theory, if you have no issues going back to zero it proves the point.

I've been reducing my nic gradually since I first switched. When I dropped from 2% to zero I did notice the difference, I was edgy and irritable until I went back up to 1%.

By contrast, I accidentally gave a guy at work a load of zero juice when he usually has 6% and he never noticed even after two weeks of using it. So maybe it is all in the mind.

 

[WardyGTC]

come to think of it, if you vaoe 0nic you could just not vape.....

I kinda disagree there, I'm working my way slowly down to zero and have no intention of stopping when I get there because I enjoy it and it maintains the tactile aspect of the habit which is grossly underrated by other cessation methods.

I'd be more inclined to suggest to this OP, if you never smoked - why are you vaping?

 

[Simon G]

I kinda disagree there, I'm working my way slowly down to zero and have no intention of stopping when I get there because I enjoy it and it maintains the tactile aspect of the habit which is grossly underrated by other cessation methods.

I'd be more inclined to suggest to this OP, if you never smoked - why are you vaping?

Well yeah, but you (and me) aren't the OP are we? I wouldn't say that to you or anyone else who's an ex-smoker who's managed to cut down/out their nicotine. But to someone who isn't an ex-smoker, who has no nicotine addiction, who I'm presuming hasn't be vaping for years and years.... yeah, if you are on holiday somewhere and you can't vape, just don't... enjoy your holiday, enjoy doing other things for a week. It's not really going to be an issue is it?

 

[WardyGTC]

Well yeah, but you (and me) aren't the OP are we? I wouldn't say that to you or anyone else who's an ex-smoker who's managed to cut down/out their nicotine. But to someone who isn't an ex-smoker, who has no nicotine addiction, who I'm presuming hasn't be vaping for years and years.... yeah, if you are on holiday somewhere and you can't vape, just don't... enjoy your holiday, enjoy doing other things for a week. It's not really going to be an issue is it?

Yes, I get your point now.

This is my first experience of a non smoker taking up vaping, I don't get it.

 

[Simon G]

Yes, I get your point now.

This is my first experience of a non smoker taking up vaping, I don't get it.

I don't really get it either to be honest but we will see more of it no doubt, I'm not convinced it will last in those groups though as I think it's more of a 'fad' that will no doubt be popular until the next thing comes along to amuse them and give them something spend their money on.

 

[zouzounaki]

I think the fact that vaping is being marketed as something "cool" might be a factor...

 

[jay2]

It matters not, the addictive properties of nicotine stay the same until evidence proves different.

I know loads of people who smoke socially, I've also spoken to people who use opiates socially.

The way nicotine effects body systems catorgarise it as an addictive substance, whether you like it or not, it is, it can't be changed, it just is!

But you can't make any reliable statement about "nicotine addiction" if you're taking all your evidence from tobcco studies , as you are.

The big problem with tobqacco studies is that you can't seperate the nicotine from the other addictive chemicals in tobacco smoke. As medical science has begun to realise (mostly thanks to vaping research ) all these old studies are invalid as nicotine research. Too many comfounding variables. You don't need training in medicine to appreciate that, just a basic grounding in research methodology.

It used to be assumed that "smoking addiction" was synonymous with "nicotine addiction". We now know that it isn't. Or rather, some of us now know that it isn;'t, but all the anti-vqaping p[ropaganda has helped to sustain that spurious equation in many people's minds. You would seem to be a case-in-point, because you're repeatedly using those terms interchangeably.

You might be right in saying that NRT is under-researched, but it certainly doesn't follow that research into smoking gives more reliable answers regarding nicotine addictiion. They don't address nicotine aaddiction at all, All they can tell us is that one or more of the numerous chemicals in tobacco smoke is highly addictive. That the main culprit is nicotine now appears increasingly unlikely.

 

[Woma]

But you can't make any reliable statement about "nicotine addiction" if you're taking all your evidence from tobcco studies , as you are.

The big problem with tobqacco studies is that you can't seperate the nicotine from the other addictive chemicals in tobacco smoke. As medical science has begun to realise (mostly thanks to vaping research ) all these old studies are invalid as nicotine research. Too many comfounding variables. You don't need training in medicine to appreciate that, just a basic grounding in research methodology.

It used to be assumed that "smoking addiction" was synonymous with "nicotine addiction". We now know that it isn't. Or rather, some of us now know that it isn;'t, but all the anti-vqaping p[ropaganda has helped to sustain that spurious equation in many people's minds. You would seem to be a case-in-point, because you're repeatedly using those terms interchangeably.

You might be right in saying that NRT is under-researched, but it certainly doesn't follow that research into smoking gives more reliable answers regarding nicotine addictiion. They don't address nicotine aaddiction at all, All they can tell us is that one or more of the numerous chemicals in tobacco smoke is highly addictive. That the main culprit is nicotine now appears increasingly unlikely.

Absolutely agree, all we can do is use the evidence we have, biochemically and through animal studies.

Until I'm likely not be called a pariah in my job, not that I research nicotine, I'll have to stick to that.

What is interesting is that vaping appears to many people, me included, to satiate nicotine 'withdrawal', which is pretty powerful evidence that nicotine has an addictive property, less or more than actually smoking, we don't know at the minute, although it would present an idea that nicotine is far more addictive in a combusted state as opposed to a vapourised state.

I think because I have that idea in my head I, incorrectly, or confusingly used the interchanged terms.