Are we Wrong to Lockdown?

[zouzounaki]

It's irrational but instinctive, I tend to think it's innate, a survival instinct about the unfamiliar which is reinforced behaviourally and environmentally.

see, i would tend to think the opposite. that cooperation and mutual aid are instinctive and that distrustfulness and suspicion are learned.

i think the “negative characteristics of human nature“ idea is very problematic and has been used to justify many unjustifiable things.

edit: distrustfulness and suspicion of other humans, just to be clear.

 

[scrumpox]

see, i would tend to think the opposite. that cooperation and mutual aid are instinctive and that distrustfulness and suspicion are learned.

i think the “negative characteristics of human nature“ idea is very problematic and has been used to justify many unjustifiable things.

edit: distrustfulness and suspicion of other humans, just to be clear.

We are complex, I don't think they would be mutually exclusive traits. Yes, we would have to first learn the objects of familiarity but that would not mean that an innate distrust of unfamiliarity cannot exist. Similarly, cooperation and mutual aid are instinctive in social species but it would not aid survival to cooperate with the unfamiliar.

To be clear, I am not attempting to justify any "negative characteristics of human nature" - you've put that in quotes but you're not quoting me are you, another source?

 

[Simon G]

see, i would tend to think the opposite. that cooperation and mutual aid are instinctive and that distrustfulness and suspicion are learned.

i think the “negative characteristics of human nature“ idea is very problematic and has been used to justify many unjustifiable things.

edit: distrustfulness and suspicion of other humans, just to be clear.

It's an interesting question.

It's difficult to know because so much of our thought processes and behavior are shaped by our experiences and surroundings.

I would like to think that as humans we have a instinctive tendency for compassion, forgiveness, cooperation, etc. but maybe we aren't born with these things. Some days it does feel like I'm in a constant battle against more 'animal like' instincts. It's difficult to know what's instinctive to us as a species and what's a result of something else.

 

[zouzounaki]

To be clear, I am not attempting to justify any "negative characteristics of human nature" - you've put that in quotes but you're not quoting me are you, another source?

no, apologies i didn’t mean to suggest you were attempting to justify it, i put it in the quotes to contain it as i couldn’t think of a better phrase.

i agree with the rest of your post. i don’t think they are mutually exclusive either. but i do think that if there is any default position for human social interaction it would be closer to altruism and cooperation than competition.

 

[scrumpox]

no, apologies i didn’t mean to suggest you were attempting to justify it, i put it in the quotes to contain it as i couldn’t think of a better phrase.

i agree with the rest of your post. i don’t think they are mutually exclusive either. but i do think that if there is any default position for human social interaction it would be closer to altruism and cooperation than competition.

Oh, totally ... social species thrive in cooperation and altruism has been observed in many. Like I said though, I think we're complex ...

It's difficult to know because so much of our thought processes and behavior are shaped by our experiences and surroundings.

sometimes we cannot separate what is hard-wired from what is experience. A good example of this would be imprinting. A new born goose is programmed (it's innate) to accept its first visual stimulus as its mother ... other species and even inanimate objects can be imprinted. That's a combination of the innate and an experience which is hard wired together. True for other species too, true for other innate behaviours ... an experience is necessary to complete what's pre-programmed.

Is it a stretch to consider that social species like humans need to first experience familiarity in order to complete the innate behaviour of being cooperative, altruistic, empathetic etc. with a family unit or tribe AND then express an innate curiosity and distrust with what is not familiar, that which is outside the early experiences of family or tribe? It's ying and yang, in order to know the familiar you have to also be able to recognise the unfamiliar.

Again, I don't think this in order to excuse racism, cultural xenophobia or any other negative behavioural characteristic, I think it's a base instinct which rational and civilised human beings overcome with ease yet can be negatively tapped into by those who wish to manipulate it for their own ends.

 

[akuma]

Interesting take on the official figures and mass testing.

 

[zouzounaki]

Interesting take on the official figures and mass testing.

i think this guy lacks any credibility. somebody else posted one of his videos a while ago and on some key points it’s clear he either doesn’t know what he is talking about or is wilfully misleading his listeners.

from searching google it seems he is some sort of new age fad diet expert with a handlebar moustache? why do people keep posting this?

 

[akuma]

i think this guy lacks any credibility. somebody else posted one of his videos a while ago and on some key points it’s clear he either doesn’t know what he is talking about or is wilfully misleading his listeners.

from searching google it seems he is some sort of new age fad diet expert with a handlebar moustache? why do people keep posting this?

I hadn't seen it before as it was published yesterday.
Which part of the video do you find to be misleading?
He's going through the official figures and death rates in the uk and elsewhere in Europe and commenting on it so you'll have to point out to me the parts you feel are misleading?

 

[zouzounaki]

I hadn't seen it before as it was published yesterday.
Which part of the video do you find to be misleading?
He's going through the official figures and death rates in the uk and elsewhere in Europe and commenting on it so you'll have to point out to me the parts you feel are misleading?

specifically stuff he was saying in the video someone posted the other day about pcr swab tests and their accuracy. it might be earlier in this thread. but on the basis of that i wouldn’t pay serious attention to anything he says. there was other questionable stuff but i didn’t waste the time watching all of it.

 

["Misfit"]