Are we Wrong to Lockdown?

[zouzounaki]

By the second do you mean like the EU ?

no, i mean the global capitalist class and transnational corporations. the global elite. you might think of the EU as contradictory in some ways because i think partly it exists as an attempt to mitigate the crisis of legitimacy of nation states (against the dominance of transnational capitalism) but it also supports and enables it. as all nations states themselves do, otherwise it would be effectively curtains for them.

what i was getting at is that this kind of “surveillance police state” will never be implemented by national governments in the sense of draconian legislation or “orwellian tyranny” as i think @Simon G was getting at, but it could be argued that it’s already here in the form of the global economy, transnational computerised financial systems, IT, social media etc.

 

[ZT]

no, i mean the global capitalist class and transnational corporations. the global elite. you might think of the EU as contradictory in some ways because i think partly it exists as an attempt to mitigate the crisis of legitimacy of nation states (against the dominance of transnational capitalism) but it also supports and enables it. as all nations states themselves do, otherwise it would be effectively curtains for them.

what i was getting at is that this kind of “surveillance police state” will never be implemented by national governments in the sense of draconian legislation or “orwellian tyranny” as i think @Simon G was getting at, but it could be argued that it’s already here in the form of the global economy, transnational computerised financial systems, IT, social media etc.

Ahh yeah , I get you - I don’t agree on your view of what the EU is - but I get the gist of what you mean now anyway.

 

[eyeball kid]

Help via advice is still help..... what do you think 'citizens advice' do? ..... Help people.

Not everyone is able to offer physical help, especially if there's a financial burden to that. That doesn't make them 'selfish and arrogant'. Like I said many people wish they could do more but aren't in a position to do so.

... and it definitely not about 'generosity' or giving away things.

Maybe I have just had better interactions with people. I'm not sure about knocking on strangers doors for a lift, but all the times I've been broken down at the side of the road someone has stopped to check I'm OK, either someone else on 2-wheels or a white van man with the offer of a lift somewhere.

Either way, there's nothing to argue about. I'm just glad I don't look at the society with the same cynical disdain.

I often wonder about this. Are we becoming more mean spirited or are we just becoming more culturally isolated with technology.
There did seem to be more community interaction as a kid but maybe I'm just remembering separate events from those day's in a more condensed form now I'm old.
This popped into my head last week. I looked out my front window to see an old bloke struggling like fook to push an obviously flat mobility scooter along the road.
Although not in tip top shape myself I ran out, put him on the scooter and pushed him home. (Flat battery)..turned out he lived in a bungalow less than half a mile up The road but The trip made me sweat like hell.
The thing that irritated was that he ran out of power about a mile or so down The road and had to push it through a hugely populated area, past a main shop and local park along a main artery road with no one offering assistance. He'd struggled for nearly an hour, stopping to recover at regular points on the way and nothing.
This area is tough but I'd previously thought quite community minded.

 

[crustyfolker]

no, i mean the global capitalist class and transnational corporations. the global elite. you might think of the EU as contradictory in some ways because i think partly it exists as an attempt to mitigate the crisis of legitimacy of nation states (against the dominance of transnational capitalism) but it also supports and enables it. as all nations states themselves do, otherwise it would be effectively curtains for them.

what i was getting at is that this kind of “surveillance police state” will never be implemented by national governments in the sense of draconian legislation or “orwellian tyranny” as i think @Simon G was getting at, but it could be argued that it’s already here in the form of the global economy, transnational computerised financial systems, IT, social media etc.

totally agree with this. I have a friend who has worked in tech for years, she has stuff on her phone that technically does not exist. She told me there's loads going on that folks don't know about or realise. it's similar to "The Company" if you've seen Prison break on tv.

 

[zouzounaki]

Ahh yeah , I get you - I don’t agree on your view of what the EU is - but I get the gist of what you mean now anyway.

i would think of the EU as a kind of supra state the purpose of which is to increase the bargaining power of it’s members in the globalised economy. i think it’s important to distinguish it from what you might call governing bodies of globalisation, such as the WTO. globalisation creates a crisis of legitimacy for national governments. they have to do what the transnational capitalist class expect otherwise their economies will crash. in this sense the idea of sovereignty, or even of national governments representing any sort of legitimate authority, is something of the past.

you could think of it like state governments having their scrotum out resting on the edge of a table and the global elite having a big hammer poised above it.

 

[mick brown]

I often wonder about this. Are we becoming more mean spirited or are we just becoming more culturally isolated with technology.
There did seem to be more community interaction as a kid but maybe I'm just remembering separate events from those day's in a more condensed form now I'm old.
This popped into my head last week. I looked out my front window to see an old bloke struggling like fook to push an obviously flat mobility scooter along the road.
Although not in tip top shape myself I ran out, put him on the scooter and pushed him home. (Flat battery)..turned out he lived in a bungalow less than half a mile up The road but The trip made me sweat like hell.
The thing that irritated was that he ran out of power about a mile or so down The road and had to push it through a hugely populated area, past a main shop and local park along a main artery road with no one offering assistance. He'd struggled for nearly an hour, stopping to recover at regular points on the way and nothing.
This area is tough but I'd previously thought quite community minded.

I would have helped also. In fact I'd have probably put it in the back of my pickup truck and driven it. [emoji1]
The point I was trying to make to Simon has just been proven by you, nobody else helped him. As I've been trying to explain, IMO some help but the majority wouldn't. But apparently I'm cynical [emoji6] [emoji23]

 

[Mr Ripple]

 

[scrumpox]

I would say the opposite , culture is the thing that keeps us separate. It's the internal cultural conflicts that cause many of our divisions ..

By internal cultural conflicts, you mean tolerance and intolerance?
Personally, I don't think cultures keep us separate, they enrich rather than divide. Cultural conflicts are both internal and external, the forces of division are negative, nefarious and, in extremis, evil. We're hard wired to be distrustful but overcoming ignorance is an essential component of human civilisation.

 

[zouzounaki]

We're hard wired to be distrustful

i’m not sure i would agree with this. but with the rest of your post, i concur.

 

[scrumpox]

i’m not sure i would agree with this. but with the rest of your post, i concur.

It's irrational but instinctive, I tend to think it's innate, a survival instinct about the unfamiliar which is reinforced behaviourally and environmentally.